Pastors vs. Priests

[lynn]

Hello everyone. I have been doing some studying lately and can see where I have been really decieved. What my old pastor did was actually take on the role of old testament preist, acting as though I needed him to communicate to God on my behalf. But Jesus dying took care of all that. So I started studying what the role of a pastor actually is. Believers are called a "royal preisthood", so I don't need him to go to God for me. The greek word for "pastor" has to do with a shepherd (not trying to trigger anyone!!!). Not in the way a lot of pastors portray it, though. The shepherd must have love and concern for people. That's not what I see these days. Of course, they act as though they are acting out of concern, but many times it is maniputation. I left my old church in 2001. My new church is better, but they still preach some of the same stuff about people needing a "covering" and they say that people who left are out of God's will. This is making me more and more uncomfortable. The bible never specifies that we have to stay under a specific pastor. If pastors would only act in the role that they are supposed to, people wouldn't want to leave thier church. Anyway, that's my rant for today. It's good to hear from you all.

My husband and I are doing well, I am learning that I can't control him and I am thankful for what I do have in my marraige. We just have to learn each other again.

[Hope 98]

Believers are called a "royal preisthood", so I don't need him to go to God for me. The greek word for "pastor" has to do with a shepherd (not trying to trigger anyone!!!). Not in the way a lot of pastors portray it, though. The shepherd must have love and concern for people. That's not what I see these days. Of course, they act as though they are acting out of concern, but many times it is maniputation.

Lynn,

I want to respond to the idea of a "shepherd". I read the way someone explained it once and it changed my understanding of what the Bible means, as opposed to what American pastors usually think.

The author (don't remember his name or the context) explained that he, an American, cared for sheep at one point in his life. When the sheep needed to be moved from one place to the next, the shepherd would get behind them and push and drive them - usually with the help of a dog.

When he went to visit the "Holy Land", he noticed that the shepherds there teach the sheep to follow behind them. Shepherds talk to the sheep and the sheep learn the shepherds voice...sound familiar?

The concept of "shepherd" as Jesus expressed it, relates to the culture of his day, and we need to recognize that to understand what he means.

I hope I haven't come across as argumentative. I think I'm trying to expand on a comment of yours that I agree with. If I've been unclear, please let me know.

[Wendy]

I agree with Hope about the Shephards. I discovered this in the study notes of my Bible a few weeks ago, and have spent some time thinking about Jesus as a shephard and what that means and what being one of his flock means. (I have/had an aversion to being a sheep - my experience is that they are smelly and dumb, but Jesus obvioiusly has slightly different views!!!)

On the subject of spiritual authority, I would be keen to hear people's views as this is something I am looking at atm. God has placed all authorities in place (in families, legal systems, work environments, government, churches etc) and we are to submit to them (there is a difference between always submitting and obeying however - Daniel submitted to the King without obeying him). But what exactly is the role of a pastor. I go to a fantastic church and have the utmost respect for my leaders, but it is a big church and some of the pastors wouldn't even know who I am. Do they have some spiritual responsibility or authority over me by way of the fact that they are pastors of the body that I attend? What are people's opinion on this?

Lynn, I agree that the bible never says anything about staying under one pastor. Regarding 'covering' I do think that is legitimate - as I learn more about spiritual warfare (in the proper sense, not the gung-ho 'let's go bind some demons' sense!) I realise that it is really important. Without knowing the background to your post though I am inclinded to hold comment. If your pastors are talking about 'covering' as being membership to a particular church, then they are probably off base (I think 'covering is more in relation to under the covering of God!). And you are not out of the will of God if you are not a member of a particular church!

Again, any comments of this?

Wendy

[Jerry]

Dear Lynn,,,,
The true "Charactor" of a Church or a Government,can be found in it's attitude tward it's detractors ;)
Love Jerry

[lynn]

My old pastor even went as far as to say that when a sheep left the "flock" he would break the sheep's legs and carry it around. :mad: He had the nerve to relate that to his "rebuke's". As far as the words pastor and shepherd are concerned, I'll have to do some more studying. Some scholars call the letters to Timothy the "pastoral letters" for his love and concern for the church. He never told Timothy to rule over the church that way.

[jjc9497]

I go back to the parable of the lost sheep. The shepherd left the sheep he knew were safe to go find the one that was lost.

When I think of the biblical concept of submission, it is always in the context of being sacrificially cared for by the one we are to submit to.

When I put the above two ideas together, it seems to me that the idea of "covering" or of "submitting" to church authority should always be in the context of knowing that all decisions made by those I submit to are done out of sacrificial love. When that is missing, I don't think it is wrong to question that authority or get out from under it, because they are not keeping up their end of the bargain (the sacrificial loving part).

As to the situation of a large church with pastors who don't know you personally----I still think the above could apply. Does the pastor exhibit an attitude of sacrificial love to the members of the church?? Even the ones he doesn't know personally???


Just my thoughts--take what works and leave the rest.

[InTheory]

Dear Lynn,,,,
The true "Charactor" of a Church or a Government,can be found in it's attitude tward it's detractors ;)
Love Jerry


Jerry, you're right on with your comment.

The formal "church" too often calls it's detractors devils, and as such puts itself in a predicament (as they were often "saints" a few weeks earlier when they were sitting on the front row).

When we can acknowledge that we don't have all of the answers, and that salvation is possible outside of the four walls where we meet, then there may be hope for the formal church.

Dan