am I crazy-or is this normal?

[joemama]

I just want to ask if anyone else out there has found that since acknowledging that they may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and manipulation that they are short tempered and seem to see things in a pattern? I am finding that since allowing myself to admit that things have been wrong (and it's not JUST ME ) I am having a hard time not seeing everyone in church as a possible abuser. I flinch when I hear alot of the things that I easily accepted for the last several years.I can no longer brush things off as I once did and am wondering if I have become sensitive or if I am going way off in the opposite direction just because I am mad and I am now allowing myself to remember all of it and feel angry.

[Eyeofstorm]

Hey Jomama:

I am the same way. I am even crazier. I don't trust any Christians. I left a church almost 7 years ago due to legalism. Those years ago, I found the clickiness and the institutional rigidity left me disgusted. My wife and I left and did not darken the doorway of a church until this last January. Even beginning to trust people with confidential information has been really really tough. I litterally have to remind myself that these folks are not the same folks from years ago. They can forget trying to exort or rebuke me, I just walk away. I may be thawing abit on my trust with this pastor but it is a struggle. I hope we both can recover.
Eyeofstorm

[mirror]

I just want to ask if anyone else out there has found that since acknowledging that they may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and manipulation that they are short tempered and seem to see things in a pattern? I am finding that since allowing myself to admit that things have been wrong (and it's not JUST ME ) I am having a hard time not seeing everyone in church as a possible abuser. I flinch when I hear alot of the things that I easily accepted for the last several years.I can no longer brush things off as I once did and am wondering if I have become sensitive or if I am going way off in the opposite direction just because I am mad and I am now allowing myself to remember all of it and feel angry.
I sure hope it's normal! I went through it too!

After we left our legalistic church, I realized how many ways I had been legalistic myself, and went the opposite direction! Even though I've never touched alcohol (except in Nyquil) and never wanted to, I went through a time where I irrationally wanted to drink!!! I wanted to do all those legalistic things that I'd been told not to do, but that I realized were NOT biblical! Thankfully, the only thing I did was to go out and buy new Bibles for hubby, me and kids... NON-KJV!

[jane]

Well I don't think that you are crazy, I think that your experience is your experience and it is real.

I struggle with feelings of hurt, wasted time, and wondering how I am going to fit christianity back into our lives..... I want my children to have sunday school and vbs, well, sometimes I think I do.

I also struggle with those feelings of rejection every time I bump into a self rightous member of my last church who believes that I am decieved and in co-horts with the devil for not following their vision.

I guess what I feel more often is pain, guilt for what my family endure and I struggle with feeling stupid for being tricked.

I also struggle with feelings of disappointment when I think I met a "real christian" and very soon they are fluent in christianese and there is no substance or depth to them.

These are my feelings, my husband and I were set free from our church a year ago. We left on May 16th but it was a few months of visits and phone calls before they were able to release us from their spider web...

jane

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=jane]Well I don't think that you are crazy, I think that your experience is your experience and it is real.

I struggle with feelings of hurt, wasted time, and wondering how I am going to fit christianity back into our lives..... I want my children to have sunday school and vbs, well, sometimes I think I do.



If were not under the weather with a summer cold, I could heartily elaborate. As it is, all part of the recovery process.

[profnachos]

I feel the same, and anytime I attempt to express those feelings, I am told that I am not being forgiving. Forgiving what? Many believe there is nothing really to forgive in the first place because spirtual abuse isn't really a problem.

Well I don't think that you are crazy, I think that your experience is your experience and it is real.

I struggle with feelings of hurt, wasted time, and wondering how I am going to fit christianity back into our lives..... I want my children to have sunday school and vbs, well, sometimes I think I do.

I also struggle with those feelings of rejection every time I bump into a self rightous member of my last church who believes that I am decieved and in co-horts with the devil for not following their vision.

I guess what I feel more often is pain, guilt for what my family endure and I struggle with feeling stupid for being tricked.

I also struggle with feelings of disappointment when I think I met a "real christian" and very soon they are fluent in christianese and there is no substance or depth to them.

These are my feelings, my husband and I were set free from our church a year ago. We left on May 16th but it was a few months of visits and phone calls before they were able to release us from their spider web...

jane

[jane]

Many believe there is nothing really to forgive in the first place because spirtual abuse isn't really a problem.


That is YET another contradiction that I hadn't even considered! It is true, I am told that I need to forgive.......and not allowed to talk about things.......and yet what I feel I experienced no one even thinks it is abuse.

That is why I like how Jeff V coined it "subtle". That word just sums it up, it is so subtle that sometimes you can't see it clearly. When you do see it, man what levels of abuse come unraveling. It is abuse period, not misunderstandings, offensives taken wrongly or deceiption.

And abuse permeates layers.....


jane

[joemama]

Thank all of you for responding, I have been losing it steadily for a while now.Lately, I have been bothered by the superiority of everyone ,thinking that we have "arrived" so to speak.Nevertheless, although we have the "truth" I am continually hearing how if I displease God he will curse me.It seems contradictory to me to think that I am God's child and yet all it takes is an attitude on my part ,or a word of doubt and he is ready to toss me out on my heels.
Also, I have become quite sickened with people who deify poverty. I think that if you have the same amount of income as my family (which is average) and your expenses are less, then you should pay your bills. Call me crazy.I get tired of listening to bad judgment stories and hearing others start remembering when all they had to eat was beans etc, etc.--Like it is somehow the "will of God". These same people don't seem to realize that when they start to parrot prosperity teachings they are basically saying that they ARE NOT blessed of God. Which is it?It all seems so wacko.
There seems to be this thought that if God is with us then we will GROW (meaning that we will have a megachurch and everything will be great). My question is is this-Jesus had 5000 then he had 12. Was he less successful in the end?I think that the focus is ALL WRONG.
Help me, I am drowning.

[jjc9497]

Thank all of you for responding, I have been losing it steadily for a while now.Lately, I have been bothered by the superiority of everyone ,thinking that we have "arrived" so to speak.Nevertheless, although we have the "truth" I am continually hearing how if I displease God he will curse me.It seems contradictory to me to think that I am God's child and yet all it takes is an attitude on my part ,or a word of doubt and he is ready to toss me out on my heels.
Also, I have become quite sickened with people who deify poverty. I think that if you have the same amount of income as my family (which is average) and your expenses are less, then you should pay your bills. Call me crazy.I get tired of listening to bad judgment stories and hearing others start remembering when all they had to eat was beans etc, etc.--Like it is somehow the "will of God". These same people don't seem to realize that when they start to parrot prosperity teachings they are basically saying that they ARE NOT blessed of God. Which is it?It all seems so wacko.
There seems to be this thought that if God is with us then we will GROW (meaning that we will have a megachurch and everything will be great). My question is is this-Jesus had 5000 then he had 12. Was he less successful in the end?I think that the focus is ALL WRONG.
Help me, I am drowning.


Actually, I think you are beginning to see things more clearly. It just takes awhile to get all the lies out of our heads and hearts. Don't forget that Satan is the father of lies. It is thru deceit that he tricks us. It is very difficult sometimes to see the truth thru the lies because Satan is good at what he does--and he's had lots of practice. It is the truth that sets us free, but when we are struggling to separate the truth from the lies it can be very confusing and frightening. I know for me I had to start all over with figuring out who God really is--even questioning His goodness. I still struggle with the concept of His loving me (which, if you've read my other posts you already know). I believe God honors that struggle, because in the end we have a much clearer image of the REAL God, although I don't think we'll really "get it" until we get to heaven. In the end, we can have a REAL relationship with the REAL God instead of a false relationship with a made up or misunderstood God--or the god someone else pounded into our heads. Although, obviously, we will never understand the mind of God--we can continue to learn more and more of His true character as HE teaches us who He really is.

Hope I didn't get too preachy--sometimes I like my soapbox.

[Doug64]

I feel the same, and anytime I attempt to express those feelings, I am told that I am not being forgiving. Forgiving what? Many believe there is nothing really to forgive in the first place because spirtual abuse isn't really a problem.

This is exactly why the churches are of no help with spiritual abuse - even the better ones!
At least some of the ministry in our former group do realize they were guilty of it and have acknowledged same. But I have doubts that it has been addressed as much or in the depth that it should be.

Many counselors are not helpful either because they don't understand what sp abuse is.

Doug

[Voyager]

It's completely normal Joe. I reacted the same way. I couldn't even sit through a church service anywhere without getting up and leaving when I got triggered by a verse of Scripture or a religious catch-phrase of some kind. I have found it best for me to stay away from all churches and anyone who uses religious affiliation as a gauge of someone's worth.

The fact is Joe, we all turned off our critical thinking in our spiritual abusive experiences and let someone else do it for us. Now that you have turned it back on, it's going to be a little awkward for a few years. You will find yourself questioning many things that you didn't allow yourself to question before. Rest assured that this is perfectly normal, and in time you will be able to use your critical thinking for what it was meant for - to keep you away from things like spiritual abuse!

I've found a good rule of thumb to go by when my critical thinking alarm goes off - I try to respond instead of react. It takes a while to learn how to do this, but it really pays off in the long run.

:cool:

[Voyager]

Here is a great article that I found that deals with the type of anger and hyper-sensitivity that most spiritual abuse victims are left with:

Anger: Learn to Respond Rather than React

Case #1. Brianna, 32, would get instantly outraged when her ex-husband threatened to file for custody of their two small children. Deciding to respond differently, she bit her tongue, and remained quiet when he began threatening an escalated legal battle.

Unable to get the usual reaction from her, he calmed down and instantly became rational and more reasonable.

Case #2. Tom, 42, would become ballistic reacting to his 17 year old daughter who refused to see she was dating a “loser” boy. The more he yelled, the deeper she dug her heels and refused to give up the boy.

Applying the anger management tool of “respond instead of react”, Tom decided to try something different by including the boy into the family activities (as much as he could stand). After about three weeks of this, the daughter—on her own—decided her “prince-charming” wasn’t the person she needed to enhance her life and ended the relationship.

Learn to be flexible

Individuals who practice good health do not continue behavior that doesn’t achieve desired results. Instead, they adjust—or fine tune—their responses depending on the situation.

There are many advantages to learning to be more flexible—and “response-able”— in dealing with the stresses and frustrations in your life.

At the top of the list is a sense of empowerment. It just feels good to know that you are in charge of your responses, instead of being controlled by other people or circumstances.

Case # 3. Sixty-four year old Lynn left anger management class one night to find her apartment completely flooded due to a burst water pipe.

Adding to her stress, her insurance company initially refused to pay her claim. She later told us, “I decided to use the tool you taught us of responding instead of reacting, so I cleaned up the whole place myself. I can’t tell you how wonderful and liberating it felt to know that I didn’t have to get upset."

Later, calmer, she recontacted her insurance agent who, this time, agreed to honor her claim! Learn to respond differently.

Step 1: Examine your attitude. Negative voices in your head can be quite convincing —persuading you to judge others, be pessimistic, or think negatively, while creating the destructive feelings that go along with destructive thoughts.

Try to create a louder, more persuasive voice that helps you identify an equally believable, more optimistic viewpoint.

Step 2: Regulate your emotions. There are many ways to regulate your emotions and feelings in your life, including being your own best friend, eating well, exercising, playing, listening to uplifting music, getting in touch with a spiritual system, and creating emotional connections with others by sincere listening.

Step 3: Try alternative behaviors. Behaving differently is one of the most effective ways to show response flexibility and get different results in your life.

But, doing things differently is not easy! We are all creatures of habit and we tend to continue behaving in comfortable and familiar ways.

One of the challenges in behaving differently is, of course, coming up with ideas on how else we can behave differently in various situations.

Start by understanding that much of our behavior is determined by a feeling or emotion we are having—or we wish to have. But a specific behavior does not HAVE to be connected with that feeling.

Try alternative behaviors when you get those angry feelings by asking yourself, “What are some other ways I can deal with this situation?”

Often they include behaviors like taking a brisk walk, assertively communicating with your family member, taking a timeout, picking your battles, or listening to soothing music.

Ask yourself: What are some other ways I can deal with this situation?

Respond vs. react: The difference between “react” and “respond” is “automatic reflex” versus a “thoughtful, reflective response” that considers different ways of dealing with a situation. A reaction is a kneejerk, automatic action. A response, however, is dealing with a situation by considering options and likely outcomes, then choosing the best.

:cool:

[Kerrin]

It's completely normal Joe. I reacted the same way. I couldn't even sit through a church service anywhere without getting up and leaving when I got triggered by a verse of Scripture or a religious catch-phrase of some kind. I have found it best for me to stay away from all churches and anyone who uses religious affiliation as a gauge of someone's worth.

The fact is Joe, we all turned off our critical thinking in our spiritual abusive experiences and let someone else do it for us. Now that you have turned it back on, it's going to be a little awkward for a few years. You will find yourself questioning many things that you didn't allow yourself to question before. Rest assured that this is perfectly normal, and in time you will be able to use your critical thinking for what it was meant for - to keep you away from things like spiritual abuse!

I've found a good rule of thumb to go by when my critical thinking alarm goes off - I try to respond instead of react. It takes a while to learn how to do this, but it really pays off in the long run. :cool:

And THIS is where I find myself ! At this point of trying NOT to react but , step back , think and respond.......my counsellor fortunatly has a great understanding of Spiritual abuse, and is helping me with this, along with a couple of great books I picked up by John Maxwell, which I hope will help me over the "pity party" cycle!

At my job interview yesterday, the male interviewee, asked me "did I think a Christian could be rich?"...........Nothing at all to do with my job but something in my resume` triggered his interest.
so, I said as long as this does not affect my chances of obtaining the job, here goes, " I said YES, it's what Christians do with their wealth. And from what I see , most Churches claim you have to give your money to THEM in order for them to distribute the money or 'help' to whatever the Leadership decides is most important ,(usually thenselves at the top of the list!)."
Therein lies the big lie!

We as Christians do NOT have to feel obliged to "give to Church", if we are being led to 'minister' to others in another way!
I hope that makes sense.
Beacuse I always wondered why I felt so bad about Tithing! It didn't "feel" right!
Yet I had a strong desire to do other things with my money , to bless people in need! ( more effectively and quickly!).
Maybe this is off the topic, but it came up yesterday and just seemed to fall into place for me; I'm not advocating , not giving to your Church, but I think it's examining motives again.
And what God is saying to you.


Anyway ,I realise I have digressed off the topic completly!
SORRY!
Just my usual blah, blah, blah!

Interesting comments by some of you about "forgiveness"!! :rolleyes:

That's the Hypersensitive, reactive part of me now , that's ready to let fly.
So see ya'll later,
Love
Kerrin ;)

[InTheory]

Coming out from under abuse is scary-in many ways, it seems much more "safe" to stay in the situation rather than to take the step and leave.
In our case, when we left, everyone left :eek:

I definitely find that I struggle with feelings that all evangelical/charismatic churches are abusive by nature and structure.

I think that this is unreasonable (on my part), but it is how I feel right now.
I feel like the real problem lies with the "machine," and that it has created many of these abusive situations by being attractive to megalomaniacs and sociopaths who desire power.

Let's face it and call a spade a spade-many of these ministers are just that-megalomaniacs and sociopaths.

I think that what happens when you begin to see it is that you start to "detoxify," which is EXTREMELY painful-all of a sudden you are acutely aware of every christianese phrase and pat answer, aware of every subtle manipulation and suggestion.

Anyway, you're not alone!!!

Dan

[jjc9497]

I definitely find that I struggle with feelings that all evangelical/charismatic churches are abusive by nature and structure.

I think that this is unreasonable (on my part), but it is how I feel right now.
I feel like the real problem lies with the "machine," and that it has created many of these abusive situations by being attractive to megalomaniacs and sociopaths who desire power.

Let's face it and call a spade a spade-many of these ministers are just that-megalomaniacs and sociopaths.



Dan


We worked with a fellow seminary student after he graduated and he ended up blowing out of ministry, and hurting a lot of people in the process. When my husband spoke of the problem with a seminary prof who knew this person, he responded with "We knew he had a problem. Not surprised at what happened". I was furious!!! Isn't it part of the job of a seminary to weed out students with problems or at least to try to help them deal with their problems before they graduate them and then send them out to hurt people???? I sure don't get it, but you are right, Dan, the system is screwed up.

[Kerrin]

In leaving the Church ,and therefore having more time with my Bible ALONE, it's interesting how less complicated it seems.
Even God's "system's", of the Old and New Testaments, just don't seem as complicated as our current day , small, or mega Church "systems"!!

I think you are ALL right!!
Sociopaths, Predators, megalomaniacs etc. etc.... They are sick , sick people!
Glad I'm OUT!!

Love
Kerrin

[ex-shep]

We worked with a fellow seminary student after he graduated and he ended up blowing out of ministry, and hurting a lot of people in the process. When my husband spoke of the problem with a seminary prof who knew this person, he responded with "We knew he had a problem. Not surprised at what happened". I was furious!!! Isn't it part of the job of a seminary to weed out students with problems or at least to try to help them deal with their problems before they graduate them and then send them out to hurt people???? I sure don't get it, but you are right, Dan, the system is screwed up.

The seminary royally screwed up not weeding that man out of the ministry. I have a friend who ordered to take a year to work on his recovery issues before he could be assigned a church to intern. I know I could never be a pastor or an evangelist. I have too much baggage which could ruin others.

One thing I do like about the church I attend is the senior pastor is seminary professor and is sensitive to abuses of the ministry. He practically received a standing ovation when he said, "Jesus to feed my sheep, not sheer the sheep!!"

The church does have a black mark in its history. It is brought up in every new members class. The senior minsiter at the time did murder his wife. He did surrender his credentials and immediately resign. The denomination brought in counselors. Prayer meetings and support groups were set up. They dealt with it and eventually recovered. We do have checks and balances among the staff to weed out anything suspect.

I am reminded of admonition to "Pray for Amy, not prey for Amy" [That is another post]. I have something of a running joke that the only thing one will see on the side of the church is the name and not a thirty foot tall billboard of the senior minister proclaiming "God's man for this final hour". Thank goodness the pastor does not think it is funny"

Great post. Give that poster a latte.

[ex-shep]

[QUOTE=InTheory]Coming out from under abuse is scary-in many ways, it seems much more "safe" to stay in the situation rather than to take the step and leave.
In our case, when we left, everyone left :eek:

I definitely find that I struggle with feelings that all evangelical/charismatic churches are abusive by nature and structure.



Leaving without a knowlege of mind control and the abusive dynamics can be scary indeed. I had no idea what was going to happen when I left my groups. I knew I was out and I was not going back.

When there is a dynamic of the only reality is the group itself, leaving can be scary to say the least.

[InTheory]

[QUOTE=InTheory]Coming out from under abuse is scary-in many ways, it seems much more "safe" to stay in the situation rather than to take the step and leave.
In our case, when we left, everyone left :eek:

I definitely find that I struggle with feelings that all evangelical/charismatic churches are abusive by nature and structure.



Leaving without a knowlege of mind control and the abusive dynamics can be scary indeed. I had no idea what was going to happen when I left my groups. I knew I was out and I was not going back.

When there is a dynamic of the only reality is the group itself, leaving can be scary to say the least.


You hit it ON THE HEAD, my friend.

Well said.

Dan

[Jerry]

I just want to ask if anyone else out there has found that since acknowledging that they may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and manipulation that they are short tempered and seem to see things in a pattern? I am finding that since allowing myself to admit that things have been wrong (and it's not JUST ME ) I am having a hard time not seeing everyone in church as a possible abuser. I flinch when I hear alot of the things that I easily accepted for the last several years.I can no longer brush things off as I once did and am wondering if I have become sensitive or if I am going way off in the opposite direction just because I am mad and I am now allowing myself to remember all of it and feel angry.
Dear Joemama,,,
Ecc 3 verses 1-8,,,,,,,,,,,,no your not crazy,,,,but now you suffer for your sanity,,,,,,,,,,,,,so do we all ;)
Love Jerry

[Kerrin]

No you are not crazy, my counsellor and I have discussed recently the very real and (well researched), details of the effects of abuse on the physiology of the brain.
Things , Changes, that can actually be detected on MRI examination , causing changes to certain areas of the brain that are "sensitive" to stimlui of a particular nature or kinds etc........

Anger is a natural response to , in my opinion, suddenly becoming aware that we have been duped! Therefore HURT!
Part of grieving, betraya,l and spiritual hurt is to be angry.

So, hypersensitivity can cause changes in the brain (picked up by MRI scan), and a hightened awareness and reaction to certain "triggers' or stimulus. ( All caused by severe trauma or abuse in some form or another).

You don't have to have an MRI to know you have been abused and therefore these physiological changes.

All you really need to know is it's REAL and it is NORMAL to be angry.
And It DOES get better..........in time.

Even if this is of no use to any one else; IT has helped me, I suddenly "feel' ok :o

Love
Kerrin ;)