What works better - reward or punishment?

[Voyager]

I've been thinking about the recent discussion on hell that we had. It reminded me of a time when my daughter wasn't doing her best in school. The teacher was complaining that she wasn't keeping up with the class at the beginning of last year's school year. So, we took her to a place called Sylvan Learning Center a few nights a week. Within two months, her problem was gone and she was making straight A's. Her teacher called with great reports, and asked what we had done to help her.

When I told the director at Sylvan about the good report, we started having a discussion about how my daughter's teacher had been taking away her recess because she wasn't completing all her work (before I took her to Sylvan). The Sylvan director responded that they have found rewards to work much better than punishment. For example, they have a toy rack on the wall with different "prices" on them. The prices are points, and the kids get to earn points as they complete their work on time and correctly. My daughter was always talking about how she was working towards a camera that she had her eye on.

This just goes to show that the promise of a reward works much better to modify behavior that a threat of punishment does. So many people use the fear of hell when trying to convert people to their religion. I have a big problem with that. If people obey out of fear, they will only change their behavior when a threat of punishment is evident. This is where the word "control" comes in to play in an abusive environment.

On the other hand, if we tell people about the reward of heaven for serving God, how much more would they be swayed to do right? When I first came to God, it was out of my astonishment at the love He was offering by forgiving all of my past sins. I couldn't believe anyone would love me enough to look past all of my "bad". Because I already felt rotten inside anyway (from growing up in a codependent environment), this really changed my behavior. I gave up drinking and drugs, and started serving God with all my heart - out of love.

Why do so many people "go astray from God" after leaving an abusive church? It's probably due to a major extent to the fear, guilt, shame, and control that was used on them. They had become calloused to the grace of God, and they just threw in the towel so to speak. All they heard were threats of punishment if they failed, and they finally snapped and said "the hell with it all".

Can anyone relate?

:cool:

[Voyager]

P.S. - I'm sure that a lot of people would read this and say, "Well, you cannot take hell out of the picture. That would only be telling them half of the truth." I would reply, "Sure you can. I can take the paddle out of my hand when dealing with my kids, and so can God. He did it when He sent Jesus!!!"

:p

[Florence]

Dear Voyager,
So very well said - thank you!

It's been a hard-learned lesson for me to understand that God's grace is free - all that is required of me is faith, hope, and trust. Any goodness found in me is His doing - because He has offered me grace that is full, rich, and free, I am free to love and serve Him with joy and confidence - knowing that if I do mess up, His grace is still sufficient.

God forbid that I should ever glory in my own righteousness, but only in the cross of Jesus!
Florence

[Boo]

Hi Voyager...I appreciate your post here. Just some musings from me.

"Why do so many people "go astray from God" after leaving an abusive church? It's probably due to a major extent to the fear, guilt, shame, and control that was used on them. They had become calloused to the grace of God, and they just threw in the towel so to speak. All they heard were threats of punishment if they failed, and they finally snapped and said "the hell with it all".


In my situation I can say that I never feared God as much as I feared Christians. I really don't know that I've ever really feared "God." As well, I can't say that I've become calloused to God's grace or feel guilt &/or shame.

I do believe though, that there are those who do leave the church & God as a result of spiritual abuse. Having said that, it might not necessarily be that they "threw in the towel" or said, "the hell with it all." It may be that after careful consideration, taken over say many years, they started to take a look at the whole "God" thing & simply realized they no longer believe like they once did.

People change their belief systems all the time. Christians become Jewish, Jews convert to Christianity, Christian to Islam, Islam to Christian, Christian to Atheist, Atheist to Christian. The list is endless I guess.

As a person who once considered herself a Christian, indeed held a leadership position within the church, and was spiritually abused, I now see that there are a group of people (like myself) that do leave the church, the faith/Christianity (jury is still out) in my case & perhaps the whole concept of "God" as well, (though I haven't completely abadoned the notion yet.)

I've been dialoguing about abuse & my story with Christians on christian forums for years now. I'm starting to see that perhaps I can't quite fit within the Christian context anymore & I'm at a loss as to whether to continue on them or find places that might be more suitable for my participation.

I have no interest in underminding the Christian faith. To each his/her own. I do know that for me it's not a matter of becoming calloused with God. I know that for the first time in my life I live with far less fear then ever before.
:)

[Voyager]

I'm starting to see that perhaps I can't quite fit within the Christian context anymore & I'm at a loss as to whether to continue on them or find places that might be more suitable for my participation.

I have no interest in underminding the Christian faith. To each his/her own. I do know that for me it's not a matter of becoming calloused with God. I know that for the first time in my life I live with far less fear then ever before.

I can relate. My belief system has been in question ever since I left my former abusive church. Our pastor was a woman, and she was always coming up with defenses as to why Paul didn't really mean that women shouldn't teach men. However, the Bible specifically says that they shouldn't. It even says that women should keep quiet in church! So how can people toss these commands aside, and yet believe the parts that they want to believe (like hell for example). I mean, if we are going to truly obey the Bible, we couldn't eat shellfish, we would have to stay away from women while they are in their period, we would have to stone those who work on the Sabbath, etc. Then we have Revelations that says only 144,000 people will make it to heaven.

I can't make sense of any of it. I don't think anyone really can - they just say they do.

:(

[Willow]

I'm not so sure there is a hell in the way that we've been taught about it. There are so many words in the bible that have been translated into the simple word "hell" . I've come to the conclusion that our modern definition of hell is not correct. It's worth a study for those of you who are inclined to do so. You have to do it with a greek/hebrew concordance to find the root words for hell being used in each particular passage. It's really fascinating! Gehenna, Lake of Fire, Hades, Eonian chastening, Everlasting fire; are just a few of the different words we translate into hell.

Here's an article on it that I just found on google. It's just something floating out there... nothing I've verified... I'm just reading it now.

http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/hell%20doc.htm

Hope this is helpful.

By the way.... this is my first post outside of the testing forum.

HUGS to ya'll

Amy

[Willow]

And for a humorous look at hell:

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com

:p