im not doing as good

[DLL]

someone asked me a question i dont know how to answer. could some of those who know my story help me?

" i can't help but wonder about the discipline you received. Paul emphasized that the church was to fully love the repentant person and bring them back to the church and "forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow." 2 Cor 2:7

Is your deep sorrow due to the lack of forgiveness and love, or is it due to your own personal struggles with the consequences of your actions?

If there is any comfort we can offer, please let us know. Each day has struggles enough, without being burdened with a past full of sorrow."

are my struggles, my fault?? now what do i do?

[oneday]

I will not pretend to know what your situation is or how to approach it. But I will tell you what has helped me

I have read and been counseled that it is less helpful to look at all this through the lens of "blame" than to consider the aspect of responsibility. I have been a victim of some things and as a result have a lot of baggage. That is unfair but true.

I also made bad choices, was imperfect, and hurt others (hurt people hurt people). The thing that has helped me is to just be objective and see the situation as it actually happened and what my current condition is and take responsibilty for my state. This took and takes time. It is fruitless for me to try to change what I cannot change, (a church I now longer attend and don't want any part of, torn relationships with others or those who have passed on) but I can take ownership of my feelings. This objectivity is where a counselor, especially one who is familiar with your kind of situation and doesn't have their own agenda, is really helpful.


Don't even try to figure out that old church. That knowledge will come but it is less important than the knowledge we need about ourselves. Again, for me, why was I attracted to this kind of church in the first place? Lots of visitors came and said, by not coming back, this place just isn't for me.

[Hope 98]

You know, I think your question gets most of us, if not all of us (here on this forum).

Someone who used to post here was asked if her illness was a result of her "unrepented sin and bitterness" or something equally judgmental. She responded that her illness was more likely caused by the questioner's sin!

Have you ever heard someone joke about the tree that stepped out into the road and hit their car? Are you perhaps that tree, but there is no joke?

Don't know if I'm making sense, but I have to leave for work.

[Satscout]

someone asked me a question i dont know how to answer. could some of those who know my story help me?

" i can't help but wonder about the discipline you received. Paul emphasized that the church was to fully love the repentant person and bring them back to the church and "forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow." 2 Cor 2:7

Is your deep sorrow due to the lack of forgiveness and love, or is it due to your own personal struggles with the consequences of your actions?

If there is any comfort we can offer, please let us know. Each day has struggles enough, without being burdened with a past full of sorrow."

are my struggles, my fault?? now what do i do?

sorry. this made me very angry... :mad: :mad: :mad:

The way the system is SUPPOSED to work is something like this.

Someone commits a sin. Said sin is serious enough to harm the relationship, or harm the person or other people. An observer to said sin approaches the person in love and a spirit of humility, with reconciliation as the goal, and lovingly confronts the person. Should that person persist, the intervening observer may need to involve other people, again, with a loving, humble spirit, to confront the person with reconciliation as a goal. Should that also fail, the matter may need to be brought before the church as a body. By the time it gets to that point, presumably, this person has been counselled repeatedly to no avail - and we are talking about sin matters here, not just disagreeing with the pastor's wife on the color of the carpet. Should it reach this point, church discipline, up to and including removing said person from membership, can be applied.

The verse referenced above is a warning to the church exercising said discipline. Provided it is over a SIN ISSUE - not abuse - the admonishment to the church is to continue to love and reach out to the person and extend grace towards them with the hope and eventual goal of reconciliation. This would require the person to repent of the sin and turn around. The "too much sorrow" refers to someone being convicted over their sin and wanting to turn around, but not being extended grace or reconciliation.

Unfortunately, this verse is too often used to beat someone up. Instead of trying to reconcile - which would require the "sinner" to "repent" and come back under the abuse - they want to pat themselves on the back for making the attempt. I have seen people excuse their unforgiving spirits with verses like this, saying they are "handing (the person) over to Satan" because (the person) disagrees with them. We're not talking about sin issues here. We are talking about preferences. I am sure it has been applied in spiritual abuse situations in a similar way, only it's the person who disagrees with the abuse. They want it to look like you are being chastised by the Lord over your actions, and if you would only "repent", you could "put it behind you" and would no longer be burdened by the "sorrow".

YOUR STRUGGLES ARE NOT YOUR FAULT...

AAAAAARRGGGHHH. I'm not saying things clearly. But the self-righteous EMOTION of someone who would dare to say that is making me upset. I'm getting back to work before I stick my cyberfoot further down my cyberthroat...:mad:

[bad girl]

If there is any comfort we can offer, please let us know. Each day has struggles enough, without being burdened with a past full of sorrow."

are my struggles, my fault?? now what do i do?

I hope nobody is trying to make you think this is your fault.

The bible makes it clear that our struggles are a sign that we are his children, he disciplines those he loves. Also, acts makes it clear that the disciples and paul struggled constantly.

So my opinion is that it is very clear here that the sorrow referred to is a sorrow caused by the discipline of people, not you.

Or, to state it differently, Sorrow based on discipline is temporary and quickly restored, something like we are with our children, whom we dearly love.

It is also clear in Galatians that you should restore one GENTLY lest you yourself fall into temptation. Did they "restore" you gently? If not, they have done wrong to you.


Pat

[jane]

now what do i do?


tell them to f... off! and if you're too afraid, tell them I said to f... off!

jane :mad:

[DLL]

thanks everybody for helping me. sometimes i feel so selfish to need anything. hope i havent burdened any of you. i just need to think more before i type, i guess.and jane, i think i love you. im gonna use you as my role model for awhile, ok? and thanks to you satscout. im glad ive got friends like you, whether they are in cyberspace or here.
in His grace

[profnachos]

tell them to f... off! and if you're too afraid, tell them I said to f... off!

jane :mad:

Now Jane. Let's sit around and come up with a Christianese phrase for "f... off" first.

How about Get Thee Behind me, Satan :D

[jane]

Now Jane. Let's sit around and come up with a Christianese phrase for "f... off" first.

How about Get Thee Behind me, Satan


WORKS FOR ME, THAT'LL SHUT THEM UP.


You know when I first read it, all I could hear was those lines in Charlie Brown cartoons when adults talk, "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

What the heck were they trying to say anyway?


DLL it is my opinion that whoever said that is an expert on how to take one small peice of scripture; twist it really crooked into an arrow and hurl it at you.

Let's say someone's sorrow was from guilt (and please let me go on record that I am not saying that about you AT ALL)..... does that mean that sorrow is justified? depression is deserved? Or the person is not worthy of love now??

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

So sorry that someone again used our Lord's name in vain-- you know to hurt you and justify why they aren't going to love you as He directs us to....

jane

[jane]

p.s. you are not a burden. having needs means you are alive, reaching out for those needs means you are getting in touch with that part of you that is still alive.

being free to swear again is breaking me out of my cutesy button down dress with big bows in my hair, sweet pure and holy, cookie mom mold.... and the real me (who ok ok ok still loves to bake cookies and bread) is breaking free in jean shorts and an awesome suntan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so please feel free to post often so I can swear again!

Jane

[oneday]

You are not selfish and you are not a burden. But you may not have a full grasp of your true worth as a person. I just got done having a long conversation with myself about that. (Over the course of a five mile run. I got so tired at the end I started listening finally :) )

I hope this forum helps you like it helps me to see my reflection off of people who don't need anything from me and accept me as I am.

[InTheory]

Jane, for some reason some people believe that being vague and obscure, or using innuendo and indirect phrases shows true spirituality.

How sad.

We have a word for this in the corporate world, and it's not pretty.

But in the abusive christian world, we often call it "annointed teaching." <sigh>

It makes me remember that Job's friends were in their best form when they didn't say anything at all.
May Christians should follow suit when someone is hurting.

My $.02

Dan

WORKS FOR ME, THAT'LL SHUT THEM UP.


You know when I first read it, all I could hear was those lines in Charlie Brown cartoons when adults talk, "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

What the heck were they trying to say anyway?




jane

[Kerrin]

Is your deep sorrow due to the lack of forgiveness and love, or is it due to your own personal struggles with the consequences of your actions?

If there is any comfort we can offer, please let us know. Each day has struggles enough, without being burdened with a past full of sorrow."

are my struggles, my fault??
NO, NO and NO!!
now what do i do?[/QUOTE]

DLL!
You tell them to mind their own business; but I also like Jane's "polite" response!

Pompous asses!!! :mad:

5 years ago when I was told I had Crohn's disease I was told it was my sin.......it would be my "thorn in the side", every time I had a relapse it was some sin in my life caused by me!!

I would go through repent /foriveness/ deliverence/ repent ..........

Eventually I was told I was making my "great job" my 'idol' and that I "had to give up working in management"!!

Long story short........I belived ALL the lies , thought I was a bad person, a bad nurse manager, a bad mother,a bad wife, a bad decision maker etc,......so when I finally got "there" they could make my decisions for me! Because I let them!

I got sick often ,which only fed the lie and caused the "healing" team to run around praying and casting out demons and delving more into my past!! :mad:

HUMILIATION!

Now, I know, I know if I get sick, I 've eaten the wrong thing or not had enough rest or , I'm just plain overdoing it!!

"thorn in the side"!!? Poppycock!! :rolleyes:

You are just fine!
Blessings
love
Kerrin ;)

[Boo]

Greetings,

Mind if I drop in? Hope, your comments about someone who use to post here made me think that it might be me? :D (Gave me a pang of nostalgia.)

For those who don't know me, I joined this forum in the spring of 2001. Took a break from here awhile back.

Thought I'd share a couple of stories.

1. A man from the church came to visit hubby & I (but mostly hubby) and as he chatted with hubby, I decided to join them. The man, we'll call him, Fred, seemed a little taken back that I should be present in the room for their discussion. Hubby didn't mind though. :)

Anyway, when Fred realized that there was more to me then just being a hostess, he commented about my on-going poor health & how he always wondered what kind of sin I must be involved in to always be so ill.

I, without hesitation replied: Funny, I was wondering what kind of sin you are involved in that would make me so sick?

Well, the look on his face! You know though, I think it made him really think & after that he always showed me respect.

2. The second story involves a friend (ex-friend now) who told me when I came home from the hospital after a critical illness & was down to 103 lbs., that I didn't have Crohn's disease. She told me that I had deep seeded secret sin in my heart & that if I would just confess my deep seeded secret sin I wouldn't have so-called Crohn's disease anymore.

The ironic thing here is, at the time she was in an on-going long-term affair with a pastor.

There's more to the story but I'll leave it at that for now.

Love, Boo

[Jerry]

Dear DLL,,,,,
Your such a sweetie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you worry about many things ;) ,,,,,,,,,know this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You are LOVED ;)
Love Jerry

[Jerry]

tell them to f... off! and if you're too afraid, tell them I said to f... off!

jane :mad:
Jane,,,,,,,,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,your a peach !!!!!!!
Love Jerry :D

[jane]

thanks jerry, coming from you it makes me feel great :)

i've had some good teachers here. ;)

jane

[Hope 98]

Greetings,

Mind if I drop in? Hope, your comments about someone who use to post here made me think that it might be me? :D (Gave me a pang of nostalgia.)

Anyway, when Fred realized that there was more to me then just being a hostess, he commented about my on-going poor health & how he always wondered what kind of sin I must be involved in to always be so ill.

I, without hesitation replied: Funny, I was wondering what kind of sin you are involved in that would make me so sick?

Well, the look on his face! You know though, I think it made him really think & after that he always showed me respect.



Love, Boo

Yep - it was YOU! you tell the story much better - even in short form.

Good to see you! Hope things are improving in your world.

[Boo]

Hi Hope,

The older I get the briefer I am. :D

I'm doing good.

Sorry for your heartache right now. (((Love you.)))

[Hope 98]

Good to see you.

Your quote seems to be just what I need to hear now. I'm going to try to apply it.

Compassion for myself is the most powerful healer of them all.
- Theodore Isaac Rubin
:)