going today

[DLL]

i gotta go to church w/dh today. he invited all thekids and grandkids, and they said if i dont go they wont go. so here i go. i feel sick, sick!!SICK!! my stomach is upset, depressed and angry. i dont wont to go. i am fighting with all my strength, which isnt very much right now. it sbeen a battle all week and im worn out. things shouldnt be this way. i dont know how to make them better.

[Theodora]

Goodness knows, I don't know how to make things better either, but I just wanted you to know that I've seen your post and will be keeping you all in prayer that everything goes better than you fear it will. Though difficult, I do admire your courage and ability to stay with the family during these hard times. May your sacrifice be rewarded and may you be guided in all you do this day.

Grace and peace--

Theodora


P.S. Do let us know how things go!!!

[pblondeau46]

I feel for you DLL..................try to be brave and keep your chin up.

Don't give in to the subtle messages that they try to spew at you. In your mind, try to be in another place.

:rolleyes:

[jjc9497]

I felt the same way going back to my old church. Just remember these people don't speak for God. He would not treat you as these people treat you.

Let us know how it went.

[jane]

((((DLL))))


Jane

[Kerrin]

((((((((DLL)))))))))))

I don't know how to make things better either.
I pray you are able to stand firm, and remeber they're not God and He loves you.
God Bless.......you're braver than me :o
Love
Kerrin ;)

[bad girl]

DLL,
Sorry about your situation. This forum has helped me understand why my husband quit going to church after 20 years of marriage. I'm now beginning to see it from his perspective and not be so angry at him for quitting church.

I was trying to take it on the chin at my old church, but he just chose to stay home.


I feel for you though. I remember the spot where I turned a corner to go to church, when I was trying to stick it out, that my stomach would get upset, then I would be like those commercials where people are having an emergency, trying to find a :eek: bathroom. What an ordeal
Pat

[homesomeday]

I know of a church where the leaders are true shepherds and the controlling of one person by another is not part of the system. There is life there.
To hear more about it, take a quick jump to one of these sites-
www.lifestream.org
www.thepilgrimpath.co.nz (an aussie site)
www.passionforthekingdom.com

if you visit any of these, and aren't refreshed by new perspective, let me know why.

[DLL]

thanks homesomeday for the links. i'll have to look at them more closely when i have the time, alone. the problem i find in going to another church or looking at websites like these or even taking advice from people is that, i am truly afraid to believe anything but what ive been taught. i know that sounds crazy but i am not sure anything but what i know now, is the truth. i hear lots of good messages and have read several good books lately, and had alot of advice, but i am tied to this fear that maybe what this church teaches IS right and if i change my thinking, maybe i will lose my salvation or my kids wont get saved because of me. i am on this roller coaster of wanting to believe in "the freedom in christ " and grace and forget "legalism", but what if i am then wrong. at least what i believe now is REAL conservative, if not legalistic, so if i err, at least i am erring closer to the right way. if i let go, which i am too afraid to do, i dont know what will happen to me. for example, my kids are what some would term worldly because they wear shorts, tank tops, mix swim, listen to music other than gospel(sometimes real bad stuff) smoke, drink and etc. now if i relax my "standards", so to speak, then would my kids ever come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? maybe my kids are like they are now because i have already relaxed things, and therefore, it is my fault. sometimes this fear is more than i can take because, even if i do submit and do what i am told, that still doesnt mean my kids will do right. i am just sooo afraid!!!! and being a christian shouldnt be this fearful, i dont think. but i dont know for sure. ive lived with it too long to know anymore. i know i dont want my kids to live with this fear but i do wish they would get a healthy respect for GOD. right now some of them say they dont care if they go to hell. they just dont take GOD serious enough. please pray for them cause im afraid sometimes that i am causing them more harm than good.!!!

[Kerrin]

((((((((DLL))))))))

What to say??? :( :(

I feel so much for you.
My daughter ,who is nearly 14, went to Church with me ,and stopped with me!
They hurt her as much as they hurt me.

I ,too , am wary of any references to "other churches or web sites" etc out of my own fear of "being sucked in again"! :o

My daughter and I used to pray together ,each night before bed..........now she doesn't want a bar of it.

I know she still believes.
I don't "push" her.

We talk about clothing and music and my opinion etc.........and sometimes she is even surprised that I actually have listened to the lyrics and (like) ,and have a viewpoint on a song, ( for our relationship , it has been important not to be judgmental..........remember what they said about Elvis!? If you actually research about "the man" , he wanted to be a preacher!)

Anyway, I try to ( I try!! ), to lead by example; ie, She sees me praying , I ask her to keep me in prayer (I might not get a response), we say grace 'cos I say so!, and I'm finding (at this point in time), she is pushing the boundaries but as long as we keep talking and I answer her honestly, we'll be ok.

( I see a lot of her "(ex) christain friends" doing worse stuff than her non-christian friends!).......You see they are continuing the"abuse" cycle.........you don't talk about the "unpleasant" stuff because we want to appear 'squeeky clean"". is their motto. (BUt it's appearance, it's fake!) :rolleyes:

She often asks me "is there anything she could do (sometimes she'll give examples), that would cause me to "kick" her out ,or stop loving her?"

Well, NO!!! :)

My Father loves me despite my many, many mistakes and hurts I've caused Him.

Amy has already done some things that I'm not exactly enthusiastic about!
But we have talked ,she knows how I feel ,and I think ,I hope, we have some kind of understanding.

I don't know if this helps at all.
You are hurting.
Love your kids as you are , and let them know they're ok ,no matter what!
Most important ,don't stop praying for them........

Let them see His light through you. ;)

I'm sorry if this doesn't help. :o

Love
Kerrin ;)

[oneday]

at least what i believe now is REAL conservative, if not legalistic, so if i err, at least i am erring closer to the right way. if i let go, which i am too afraid to do, i dont know what will happen to me. for example, my kids are what some would term worldly because they wear shorts, tank tops, mix swim, listen to music other than gospel(sometimes real bad stuff) smoke, drink and etc. now if i relax my "standards", so to speak, then would my kids ever come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? maybe my kids are like they are now because i have already relaxed things, and therefore, it is my fault. sometimes this fear is more than i can take because, even if i do submit and do what i am told, that still doesnt mean my kids will do right. i am just sooo afraid!!!! and being a christian shouldnt be this fearful, i dont think. but i dont know for sure. ive lived with it too long to know anymore. i know i dont want my kids to live with this fear but i do wish they would get a healthy respect for GOD. right now some of them say they dont care if they go to hell. they just dont take GOD serious enough. please pray for them cause im afraid sometimes that i am causing them more harm than good.!!!

You are being so brave. These are some tough issues to face. Going back to a situation where you experienced pain is so hard sometimes. The bubbling anxiety, the endless self-doubt. I hope this went well for you.

I am not so sure that reinforcing the control that conservatism provides is always the best way and makes you closer to the "right way", as you put it. Was the older son closer to the right way or the younger in the parable of the prodigal son? They both found ways to be connected with their father on different paths. The younger may have been in the end more secure in his connection, sure of his being loved for who he was rather than for his obedient lifestyle.

With children it is so hard. I think the only course, and they are all scary, is to be authentic. Say what you actually think and feel. If I can achieve that (I can't always but this is my goal) they will have something real to base a model on. But mine are older now and I try consciously to give them more love and fewer answers. I look back with such regret because now I see I was trying to make them as dependant on church as I was. Thank God (literally) that they rejected that.

Again, I hope you got through this Sunday, if not intact, then ready to be put back together.

[joemama]

D.L.L, Is there another church-same denomination-in your town or nearby? Have you ever visited it? Where I live there are several,some more hurtful-some less.

What happens though, is that it is taught that if you leave your home church -you are church hopping and if you leave "crosswise" with your pastor you are in danger of losing your salvation. I am sorry you are in such a hard place.

As far as the "standards" go--this is what I've seen-When my sister left the church-she let go of standards. Not because she was in such"rebellion" necessarily, it was to put a boundary up between those who had hurt her and everything associated with it. I also think that somewhere in her mind she was trying to make it harder for her to cave in and go back.(If she looked different then it would be harder for her to change her mind and go back without reproach)
But do I think that she will go to hell ?? ----NO!!!!-----
Ask yourself this-where does it say that in the Bible?--The scriptures in Corinthians are pretty hard to understand.The scriptures on being shamefaced are talking about being humble(I think) even though it is ALWAYS preached that shamefaced means plainfaced.The scripture about wearing men's clothing is old testament (which also says that men should not shave or trim their beards --and that if you have a disobedient child you should take him outside the city gate and stone him to death). My point is that if you feel to do the "standards"-do them but know that they have no bearing on salvation.Salvation is based on grace.

I think you go to the same kind of church as me--I feel for you-and I will pray that God gives you peace. He's not crazy--AND HE LOVES YOU!!!

[Kerrin]

Once you have made a personal comittment to Christ; once YOU are in relationship with Him, when you've prayed "that" prayer and asked Him to be your Lord and Saviour : How can you lose your salvation.........???? :confused:

You can't ,You belong to Him!
There's a favorite line from a movie , it goes something like: a man sells his soul to the devil and things start to go wrong.........very wrong with all his seven wishes........when the man realises he wants his soul back ; he discovers you can't sell what doesn't belong to you! It's God's! ( He never lost his soul, it was a trick, deception).

My (old), Church loves to "take pity on me" ,so if I see anyone ,they ignore me ( because I'm 'demon posessed' ,or they look at me pathetically; and I can "see" in their minds eye saying "poor thing ,she's backslidden!".........Lost her salvation too......and what about her poor daughter?????"

I KNOW neither one of us has "lost" our Salvation.
We're just on a quest to find a "safe" Church, and if that's not possible then Church is at home..........you know ; "when two or more are gathered together in My name.........well, there He is too.

I get so mad at these labels :mad:

It's about You and God. ;)
Not that Church ,or any other Church. ( And it's certainly NOT about any pastor! who has set himself up as God!!)

I mean this in love........I'm sorry if I seem agressive........I really just get angry at this abuse of innocent people and children. :o

Love
Kerrin ;)

Take a step back for a bit, if you can ,and take a different look at this picture.

[DLL]

thanks kerrin,
i understand what you are saying. i was in church for 20 yrs. that taught that too.
but freewill baptists believe you can actually give back your salvation. that you can reach a point where you choose to never have God or Jesus be in your life ever again. and they back it up with the book of Hebrews. And i understand where they are coming from. they say , just like Jesus stands at the door and knocks(doesnt force himself), then He will not force us to stay saved if we choose to not be saved anymore. it is not like im just gonna choose one day to not be be saved anymore. its that i backslide further and further until my heart is so hard and my eyes are so blind that i have chosen to turn away from God. i have been taught both ways, its just that this way seems more secure.

thats why i get so afraid. all my kids have made a profession of faith. all of them live like there is no God. maybe they werent saved to start off with. but maybe they were and now their hearts are getting so hard that they are turning from God. and is it my fault because i dont see things like i am told to see things, ; that i dont believe like the other people in the church; that i am too liberal with them and have been a bad testimony, not to mention parent.
and right now, only one of my kids will even admit they are a christian. one says it none of my business and the other says they would rather go to hell than to go to heaven with these people. now did I cause them to think this because i kept taking a stand against this church? what i have been told is that since i dint respect the leadership and went against some things, that it caused my kids to lose respect for authority and therefore God. i dunno. this is just what i have to think about alot.

[Kerrin]

:o
((((((((DLL))))))))

I'm not trying to tell you what to believe.

( My ex ( Randy), was brougt up Southern Baptist, so I kinda understand a little; BUT not much. :o :(

I know our beliefs 'clashed' especially over the submission to authority (and to him , my husband), because he used to wave his Bible at me and quote scripture at me!
( I was brought up in the Church of England , which has "splintered' into many parts now.........and has only confused things more) :(

I only know enough to know what a hard time you are giving yourself and I don't want, in any way, to add to that pain. :o

You are so strong.

I wish I could offer something useful for you.
((((((((Hugs)))))) ,and prayers if that's ok?? :o
May God protect you and your chidren during this time.

Love
Kerrin ;)

[jane]

REFERENCE TO SCRIPTURE****




" and they back it up with the book of Hebrews. And i understand where they are coming from. they say , just like Jesus stands at the door and knocks(doesnt force himself), then He will not force us to stay saved if we choose to not be saved anymore."


DLL-
Could you show me what numbers in Hebrews that you are referring too? I am curious.

also, could you show me where the scripture says that he will not force us to stay saved. The standing at the door and knocking is there...but not the addition.


I am asking because I want to know if I am missing something--- I also have a story to tell you about "loosing my salvation", so please bare with me...

Love,
Jane

[Jerry]

if i let go, which i am too afraid to do, i dont know what will happen to me. for example, my kids are what some would term worldly because they wear shorts, tank tops, mix swim, listen to music other than gospel(sometimes real bad stuff) smoke, drink and etc. now if i relax my "standards", so to speak, then would my kids ever come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? maybe my kids are like they are now because i have already relaxed things, and therefore, it is my fault. sometimes this fear is more than i can take because, even if i do submit and do what i am told, that still doesnt mean my kids will do right.
Dear DLL,,,,
There will not be one person cast into the "Pit" because they wore a "Tank Top" or listened to "Black Sabboth" on 78 rpm :D You state in your post,,,,"Now if I relax my "Standards",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Whos standards????????are they really yours????? You are NOT I repete NOT responcable for the behavior of others...............Being "Saved" is a process NOT something we do or don't do!!!! Your not unsaved one day,,,,,,,,and "POOF" the next day you are "Saved".....We accept Christ,,,come under the atonement of His sacrifice giving us access to "Forgivness by His Grace",,,,,,then we begin the process of changing our lives as we advance in the knowledge of Love ;) Seems to me that there was a certin wedding reception where Jesus brought the wine :D Gee I wonder if He was saved??????,,,,,,,,,,,pretty stupid isn't it????? All you can do is set an example for your children,,,,,,weather they hear or weather they forebare,,,?????? Sorry,,,,thats not YOUR problem ;) You do your job,,,,and let God do His ;) Now I have to go,,,,,,,, Elvis is on the "Oldies Station" :D
Love Jerry

[molehills]

I think the Hebrews passage is chap. 11. My Bible's are mostly packed :rolleyes: .

DLL, your church has done more to damage your relationship with God that anything else, and I think it's safe to say the same for your kids.

[Kerrin]

:confused: I'm still confused

Sorry.
I was brought up going to Church ,then I went my "own" way as my parents marriage fell apart ,and neither one of them took responsibility for us kids , so I became the "mother" , "wife" etc.........

When my baby was born I went back to Church , just to have a look.
( I've tried most of the "denominations").
And when my marriage fell apart I went back, and gave my life to Christ wholeheartedly.

( It was kind of like coming home ,only it was a 'feeling' .........I can't explain it) ;)

I have tried to turn my back on God, ( you know tell him what He can do with my salvation), it's been /is my experience He doesn't "take" it back.

Our God doesn't "take" full stop!

He gave us Jesus.
Therefore life. ;)

And He just waits patiently.

I too, like Jane ,would like to understand more of where these people are using Hebrews to tell you you'll lose salvation.
Am just curious that maybe I've missed something. :confused:

I thought Jesus was knocking because He is a gentleman and doesn't force His way into our lives...........but that doesn't mean He says,"Oh well ,no-one home I'll go now............" :o

Only my opinion. Wretched sinner ,that I am, God keeps chasing me ,and only He knows why 'cos I don't! ( I'm glad He does though because the amount of times I give up when He doesn't, well, I just don't know where I would be; I hate to think :eek: )

God Bless and Protect you,
Love
Kerrin ;)

[homesomeday]

One thing I think all believers can do to help their perspective about pain and confusion regarding being in fellowship is to consider the fact that the bible clearly states what church is. Church is what you become when you believe in the name of Jesus and receive his Spirit of adoption. When you became part of God's church on your day of that new beginning, no one could name or characterize or presume to say what God will do with you. You did not join an institutional assembly on some corner, you were made part of Jesus himself. The bible says that this body is made of living stones and not made by hands. Now comes a man with a degree from a seminary that says HIS ministry is a church, and puts you in fear of leaving from under "covering" of his ministry. Do yourself a favor and understand that church is not a caste system in which some of us are ministry class super spiritual individuals, and some of us are Lay class benefactors of these spiritual superstars. Jesus warned of this kind of thinking when He told his disciples not to be looked on as though they had title or position. He said in Matthew 23:8 "But you should not be called Rabbi. "You have only one master, and you are all brethren. "Do not call any man on earth your 'Father', for one is your Father in heaven, and call no man your teacher, for one is your teacher and he is the Christ." When Jesus said that we are all brethren in this context, it means all believers in Him are equals. Read that scripture in Matthew 23 in all its context. When you realize that looking at an institution on the corner where people meet on Sunday morning is not what the bible describes as His body, and that you are his church outside of that building whether they like it or not, you can begin to see that you do not GO to church.

You ARE his church 24 hours a day, and 7 days a week. Why do the unsaved meet for fellowship around a football game or dinner or something, and trust themselves to be responisible enough to share and live in freedom in that setting, yet when Christians get together, they assume somebody is more spiritual then them, and someone has to be in control, and that person's ministry has to take credit for what God does among them. Trust that the Holy Spirit can handle leading and guiding your life without someone on Sunday Morning changing your spiritual diaper. There are Gifted men who are eloquent speakers on Sunday morning, but we all must learn to take responsibility for our own rooting in Christ, to know him directly and not through some preachers ministry on Sunday. There are 6 other days that are just as ripe for relationship with Jesus as Sunday :) . When you read this, call out to God and ask him to show you if you are his church 24/7 or if He really meant to fit His relationship with his people primarily into the church you go to Sunday morning. Believe that he will show you and wait over a good period of time paying attention. Ask him to confirm it in a clear way so you know you are not being fooled by youself or anyone else. Ask others to pray for your ability to hear God on this important subject. This is just a suggestion. If you are not quite ready yet, ask someone you trust to pray for your confidence in the Lord. That is one of the ways fellowship can really be what it is meant to be.

Here's to all of us knowing Him better for ourselves :rolleyes:

[Jerry]

Salvation=nothing more than acceptance of the truth......My salvation is never lost,,,,,,but sometimes I am ;)
Love Jerry

[Reg]

Dear DLL,,,,
There will not be one person cast into the "Pit" because they wore a "Tank Top" or listened to "Black Sabboth" on 78 rpm :D You state in your post,,,,"Now if I relax my "Standards",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Whos standards????????are they really yours????? You are NOT I repete NOT responcable for the behavior of others...............Being "Saved" is a process NOT something we do or don't do!!!! Your not unsaved one day,,,,,,,,and "POOF" the next day you are "Saved".....We accept Christ,,,come under the atonement of His sacrifice giving us access to "Forgivness by His Grace",,,,,,then we begin the process of changing our lives as we advance in the knowledge of Love ;) Seems to me that there was a certin wedding reception where Jesus brought the wine :D Gee I wonder if He was saved??????,,,,,,,,,,,pretty stupid isn't it????? All you can do is set an example for your children,,,,,,weather they hear or weather they forebare,,,?????? Sorry,,,,thats not YOUR problem ;) You do your job,,,,and let God do His ;) Now I have to go,,,,,,,, Elvis is on the "Oldies Station" :D
Love Jerry
Hi Jerry,

Yes, that's it. I love the way you put things. :) I am a little more formal and try to be as clear and accurate as possible.

When we accept Jesus Christ as pesonal Saviour upon real repentance He gives us His Holy Spirit to minister to us. He said He would not leave us alone but give us another Comforter. In Christianeze this is referred to as Postitonal Grace. A state that makes us sons and daughters of God. No one can take that away from us. You talked about "the process of changing our lives as we advance in the knowledge of Love" ;) This process is called Sanctification and begins at conversion. It lasts a lifetime.

[Reg]

Correction:

[Reg]

Let's try that again. :)

CORRECTION: It should be Positional TRUTH not Grace although it is because of God's Grace.