View Full Version : You can give up on the Abuse but please don't give up on God!
yahshea
06-11-2005, 12:26 PM
I just want everyone that has been hurt to stop and put the blame where it belongs. God never intended for you to be abused. The enemy of our soul is the one that plans and schemes our whole life to beat us down and then destroy us. Please look for the church that truly is showing the love of Jesus the way it was meant to be. I am praying that God delivers you as He did my family and myself from all spiritual abuse. :)
Minister Mike,
This is Minister Jane. (I figure this entitles me to a little respect ;) )
Why are you here?
First, what makes you think we haven't looked for a church that is loving the way Jesus wants us to?
Second. Please don't pray for me on here....ask me if I want to be prayed for first. Even Jesus was enough of a gentleman to ask or to wait for us to "Knock"....
The only deliverance that I need is from people who think that putting minister in front of their name qualifies them to be listened to quicker. . . and tells us where to put the blame!
I put the blame on the very people who made the decision to sin against me in Jesus' name! If Satan is behind it--- then they need to acknowledge their choice to be used by Satan.
I am angry that you came on to our site with an order on what and how to do.. and who our enemy is presuming that we already don't know.
You don't know me, my story or how much I love Jesus.
I didn't walk into your church or your forum and shout, "HEY YOU NEED TO . . . . . ."
It is rude, intrusive and self righteous!
Why don't you start over, introduce yourself and tell us why YOU ARE HERE????
You don't have our permission to come here and start trying to fix our lives in the way you think we need to fix it.
Jane
butterfly
06-11-2005, 03:32 PM
MIKE, PEOPLE IN THIS FORM ARE TRYING TO HEAL, THERE ARE WORDS THAT TRIGGER. YOUR POST HAS BEEN A SUPER TRIGGER FOR ME. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME TO STOP WHERE EVER I PUT THE BLAME. YOU DO NOT KNOW IF I AM BLAMING THE LORD OR NOT. AND FOR OUR " ENEMY" I HAVE HAD ENOUGH FOR MY LIFE TIME HEARING ABOUT HIM BEING THE CAUSE OF MY TROUBLES!!!! IT IS THE HUMANS WHO ARE MY ENEMY. MY GOD PROTECTS ME HE DOES NOT LET " YOUR ENEMY "DESTROY ME. I BELONG TO GOD!!!!! HUMANS ARE THE ONES ALL MY LIFE WHO TRYED TO DESTROY ME. I AM NOT GOING TO "PLEASE LOOK FOR A CHURCH." :mad: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK THAT. :mad: :mad: :mad: AND DO NOT PRAY FOR ME TO BE DELIVERED. I CAME TO THIS FORUM TO STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!! AND I DO NOT LIKE THE WORD MINISTER WHEN SOMEONE IS TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY CHRISTIAN WALK. I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT BEEN THERE!! BUTTERFLY
hello butterfly,
how are you?
Jane
Voyager
06-11-2005, 04:42 PM
Aaarrrggghhhh!!! Not another fly-by "minister" trying to save the forum. Someone please pass me the barf-bag.
:eek:
I am passing you the virtual barf bag.. . . . .
please remember to kindly barf out those demons that have you so decieved you don't know how to think for yourself. . . ;)
you mean to tell me that this has happened before?
Jane
Jerry
06-11-2005, 05:00 PM
Oh Boy,,,,,,,,,,,,I was hopeing that I wouldn't have to say this,,,,,,,,,,,,MIKE,,,,,,,,Go pound salt in your ass!!!!!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes: Jerry
Jerry,
I get the jest, but I am going to need a translation. I asked my husband, what does pound salt in your a.. mean? HE doesn't know either, but it doesn't sound too good.... :p
yup, from me too, go do what jerry says....
Minister Jane
Jerry
06-11-2005, 05:15 PM
Oh Jane your so funny ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,JUST THINK HOW THAT WOULD BURN !!!!! :D
Love Jerry
oh ok,
around here they use bb guns....same burn.....same message...."GET OFF MY PROPERTY!"
interesting though Christ tells us to be salt in the earth-- it is a cleansing tool too! ;)
wonder what He thinks about this crap in His name? Maybe it needs some salt.
Jane
isnt it funny how theres always ONE person who thinks God has given only them the answers. heck, if it was minister mike, we wouldnt need jesus, now would we. Hey jerry, could you pass the salt to mike please? :mad:
i hope i didnt offend anyone by humor, but this sounds EXACTLY like what my old preacher would say. as a matter of fact, it was said in the sunday night service last week , "that we(that church) are the only faithful and committed ones" :eek: . i have heard so many times that i would only find answers and GOD and grow , if i went to that church. that all other churches would just shrink my soul. maybe thats why i dont "fit" in anywhere, cause my soul has shrunk down to nothing.
anyway, i like all the responses. thanks guys for taking care of "OUR PLACE"!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe if we sound really angry and bitter, He won't bother us anymore. He'll figure we are
:eek: satan's spawn :eek:
Jane
isnt it funny how theres always ONE person who thinks God has given only them the answers.
DLL
The sad part is lately there is more than one of them. Everywhere I turn and they all have different solutions, beliefs and theories. And here's the funny thing, they have all heard these solutions from GOD> Maybe their GOD has multiple personality disorder.....
The Jesus I serve was the same yesterday, today and forever....
Jane
Katie
06-11-2005, 07:11 PM
Well, I saw that coming. :rolleyes:
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, Mike you have made an awkward and inappropriate entrance.
You can give up on the Abuse but please don't give up on God!
1. Thread title - your assumptions and commands concerning our personal relationships with God have crossed a boundary considering you don't know any of us yet.
I just want everyone that has been hurt to stop and put the blame where it belongs.
2. Feel free to put the blame where you like, but not to tell us where we should.
God never intended for you to be abused.
3. Good sentence. I believe most understand this and would agree.
The enemy of our soul is the one that plans and schemes our whole life to beat us down and then destroy us.
4. This tends to "spiritualize" a very real event in our lives that happened with the betrayal, manipulation, control, and abuse to us by flesh and blood people. Most of us are sorting through and dealing with this in personal, individual methods that are appropriate to us.
Please look for the church that truly is showing the love of Jesus the way it was meant to be.
5. Again, it is not your place to tell us what we should do or how we should do it.
I am praying that God delivers you as He did my family and myself from all spiritual abuse.
6. I'm sorry if you and your family have experienced abuse.
Minister Mike
7. Signature - if you hadn't lost any of us before now, you did here. Drop the title.
If you'd like to try again, we are most interested in learning about you and what you've experienced. I think if you approached us as an average guy, you would find this to be a welcoming and supportive place. Even if you want to share what has been helpful to you in recovering from abuse, that's OK, as long as it is in the context of your personal experience. None of us are here to be told what we should do.
As an example, hope this helps:
Thread title - "New Here"
Post - Hi! My name is Mike. My family and I have experienced spiritual abuse. I'm glad to have found this site, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you.
Signature - Mike
butterfly
06-11-2005, 07:17 PM
Hi, Jane I Am Ok. I Read His Threads Which Got Me Going Then Went To His Home Page. Then I Lost It!!!! You Are A Funny Woman Minster Jane. Minster Is Only A Trigger For Me When It Is Used As He Used It. The Address For His Home Page Is On His Profile Page. Thanks Everone For Support. It Was The Big Minster Mike That Got Me. If He Wanted Our Attation He Got It!!! :d You Are My Family :) Butterfly
pblondeau46
06-11-2005, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=Katie]
Good post Katie! I especially like the following answers! ;)
The enemy of our soul is the one that plans and schemes our whole life to beat us down and then destroy us.
4. This tends to "spiritualize" a very real event in our lives that happened with the betrayal, manipulation, control, and abuse to us by flesh and blood people. Most of us are sorting through and dealing with this in personal, individual methods that are appropriate to us. :mad:
Please look for the church that truly is showing the love of Jesus the way it was meant to be.
5. Again, it is not your place to tell us what we should do or how we should do it.
And Pray tell, where is that church? :confused:
Thanks Katie! :)
The Address For His Home Page Is On His Profile Page.
Butterfly,
here's the thing about this post. I went on and saw that he quoted our site, so I thought, maybe this guy really is trying to help people......
Then I noticed the TIME of that post it was after 8pm today, his post here was before that because I was on when my children were napping, afternoonish....
Nothing else indicates that he was into spiritual abuse stuff on his site. I feel like it is manipulation after he read your post or our replys.....
Would love to hear an apology from him,
Minister Jane
Kerrin
06-11-2005, 09:42 PM
MINISTER MIKE!!!!
Go shout at someone else and leave my friends here alone.
They have more compassion ,respect, and the love of God than any place I've been, seen, or read !!!
YOU, SIR are an Ignoramous!!!!
YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT ANY ONE OF US!!!!
AS JANE SAID ,EVEN JESUS "KNOCKED" ,FIRST!!!! ( YOU GO GIRL, MINISTER JANE :p )
(((((((Butterfly)))))))))
Hope you're ok . In fact I know you are ,THIS IS eaxctly what you have survived .
How dare you "presume" any of us have "given up on God" ,let alone anything or anyone else!
Jerry, gee, why did it take you so long being polite???
Not like you :p :D
' Minister' Mike, and I use the term loosely, go preach somewhere else ; If you're for real ,You'll come back and DO WHAT WE ALL DID : introduce YOURSELF, and you WON"T DARE PREACH AT ANY OF US!
THANK YOU !!!!
( In fact WE all could probably teach you a thing or two or three... :mad: :rolleyes: )
Sorry I'm not very "gracious" :o :( , I DO love my enemies ,I just don't have to talk to them.)
Love
Kerrin ;)
Katie-
Your post is well said. Professional, polite and on the topic-- not attacking the person.
Great job.
Wish I could be so balanced-- not there yet. :o
Jane
Yup kerrin,
knew you'd be around to put up some boundaries.....good to hear from you. :D
Jane
Kerrin
06-11-2005, 09:52 PM
Yup kerrin,
knew you'd be around to put up some boundaries.....good to hear from you. :D
Jane
:o :o
Wish I were as eloquent and balanced as Katie and Pauline , sometimes :( ,
I guess that's what makes us all so special !!
We're different ,and I love you all :p
( You guessed , :p , I can be re-active and a "drama Queen LOL :p )
Love
Kerrin ;)
Yup Pauline,
And Pray tell, where is that church?
That has been what is fueling my anger all night. That is the bottom line for me. We visited a few churches since then, bible preaching, God fearing (or so they said) churches.
One pastor prayed, and I kid you not, "That the Lord would reach down and stop Larry's heart!" because Larry, a mentally ill man from Cananda called that Pastor and threatened him. Even after the police identified that it was an ill, confused man, our pastor told him, "YOU BETTER REPENT< RECIEVE THE LORD OR DIE " because "YOU ATTACKED GOD'S ANNOINTED ONE".
Yeah, that is in the new testament ;) !
Not the fruit of any spirit I read about, maybe he served a different God.
As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord!
Jane
I can be re-active and a "drama Queen
better to be that than to fall for another abusive pastor!
Not to mention, be who God made you to be. I believe that is the foundation to worshipping Him in spirit and in truth. He died that we might live.
When we are taught to die to the flesh, that means sin nature NOT our character and personality. Unfortunately, in the controlling church, we were taught to conform into "leaderships" image. What a horrible lie!
Love you kerrin just the way you are!
Jane :D
Kerrin
06-11-2005, 10:02 PM
(((((Jane)))))
:D
If nothing else ,and "good always comes out of 'bad' doesn't it?, WOW!!!
Look how protective we are of one another............I'm so proud :D
Love you all,
Kerrin ;)
Actually, this has only strengthened my resolve that this IS a safe place!!! ;)
(((Kerrin)))
I got to go to bed now, I am exhausted. Still waiting to see him return and speak to us....
Jane
butterfly
06-11-2005, 11:15 PM
Kerrin, :) I Am Fine The Thread Just Hit All My Buttons And Out I Came With My Boxing Gloves. I Was So Worried About People Here Getting Triggered. When I Was Speeding Away On The Keyboard So Was Minster Jane We Were Posting Around The Same Time. Thank You For The Hug Butterfly[[kerrin]]]
butterfly
06-11-2005, 11:23 PM
Jane, I Would Not Visit The Web Site Again. I Went There Thinking Maybe He Was Caring And Just Did Not Understand Triggers. Well I Got More Triggers Over There. His Post And This Hot Humid Weather We Are Having Just Did Not Mix. I Like Your New Name. Thank You You Gave Me A Laugh And God Knew I Needed One. [[[ Jane]]] Butterfly
Janice
06-12-2005, 02:11 AM
was Going To Add My "2 Cents" Worth But You Guys Have Done A Fine Job Without Me. Keep Up The Good Work!
Voyager
06-12-2005, 02:28 AM
please remember to kindly barf out those demons that have you so decieved you don't know how to think for yourself. . .
Errrr... choke.... choke.... gag..... I have exorcised a demon..... Hallelujiah!
you mean to tell me that this has happened before?
At least once every six months. Does anyone remember "Bible Joe"? He ended up starting such a controversy that it wrecked the old forum and caused the Admin to start this new forum. I just hope that we never succumb to anything like that again. It caused so much division on the forum that several people left and never came back.
Spiritually abused people tend to have a weakness - some of us are looking for someone to lead us spiritually. If someone with a charismatic tone comes along and says the right words that are backed by Scripture - look out. The whole forum could be split down the middle just like a bad church split. If you think I'm kidding - think again. I've seen it happen at least three times since I first started posting here in 1999.
:cool:
Kerrin
06-12-2005, 02:40 AM
:D
I think This has been a really GREAT excuse to "VENT" for us all!!
Yes, indeed, I think ,reading the posts/replys; we all jumped in to prove how supportive of one another we can be,
AS I said before I'm proud of us all.
We have spoken the Truth, in a just, and healthy way! :D
ANd, per chance , we should be wrong about MR "minister Mike" ? (I don't think so), He will be shown the same grace I have had, extended to me. :)
I willl be the first to beg forgiveness!! :o
It feels good to speak yer mind ,don't it??? For a change :p :D
Love
Kerrin ;)
Voyager
06-12-2005, 02:42 AM
P.S. - The one thing I notice that is different about the people that are on this forum now as opposed to the past is that you are all aware of the cunningness of people like "Minister Mike". I am very honored to be part of this forum. You have all matured spiritually and emotionally, and none of you seem to be ready to allow someone like "Minister Mike" lead you around like a sheep to the slaughter. The blind will lead the blind right into the ditch - but none of the people on this forum are ready to be lead into a ditch again.
We are on our way to recovery!
Thank God!
:cool:
Voyager
06-12-2005, 02:47 AM
ANd, per chance , we should be wrong about MR "minister Mike" ? (I don't think so), He will be shown the same grace I have had, extended to me. :)
Don't worry about it Kerrin. If Mike wants to humble himself, ditch the "minister" title, come down to our level, and be a supportive member of this forum - we will all welcome him with open, loving, and compassionate arms. However, based on my past experience, the chances of that happening are very slim. Most people who hang on to the title of "minister" or "reverend" are not willing to admit that they are no better than anyone else.... but miracles can happen.
:cool:
Kerrin
06-12-2005, 02:55 AM
AMEN!!! Voyager :cool:
:D
This has made my day.
What may have been intended to harm ,has actually shown us how strong we all are! :)
We are a cool group of People.
What are party we'll be having in heaven when we all get there ; who's mansion tonight???????? :D
Love
Kerrin ;)
someone with a charismatic tone
this guy doesn't sound too charismatic- sounds controlling and self righteous right off the bat.
I just hope that we never succumb to anything like that again. It caused so much division on the forum that several people left and never came back.
me too, can't believe how much division is created in Jesus' name.
If Mike wants to humble himself, ditch the "minister" title, come down to our level, and be a supportive member of this forum - we will all welcome him with open, loving, and compassionate arms.
isn't it funny how some of us wanted to attack him and then protect him anyway? What is up with that? Sounds like an interesting topic for us to discuss! I felt bad when after writing, I looked up in the forum rules to see how to get rid of him and one of the rules was for us not to react....I reacted. That condemnation from breaking rules...again, probably another good topic to look at.
I think This has been a really GREAT excuse to "VENT" for us all!!
it sure felt good for me to stand up and say, "YOU CAN"T DO THIS TO US!"
now if only I can do it to the old pastor.....
I Like Your New Name
thank you, I think it suits me. Gets people to look at me with a whole new set of respect. Shouldv'e done it sooner. When I tell most that I am a social worker they think I am a liberal lunatic who needs deliverance. I like the power this new position gives me. Been using it around the house. Even the husband knows his rightful place now...lol Been thinking about changing it to pastor- gives the impression I have to lord over a dumb flock of sheep, hit them with a stick a few times..what do you think? oh, probably not; someone with open eyes might call me PASTURD instead.....
Minister Jane
pblondeau46
06-12-2005, 08:17 AM
Does everybody know that when the bible says "Touch not mine annointed" It means don't kill him?????? Heh heh heh :D
No, I didn't know that.
I thought it meant not to talk bad about him, be against him, harm him in any way, no negative talk, no doubt, no questions...as if he is as holy as God.
Jane
pblondeau46
06-12-2005, 08:44 AM
Here are a few articles dealing with that very subject. " Touch not mine anointed".
These are against, not for, the abuse of this passage.
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/anointed.htm
http://www.myfortress.org/TouchNotMineAnointed.html
http://www.watchman.org/reltop/acctblty.htm
pblondeau46
06-12-2005, 09:54 AM
Check out what Minister Mike has to say..............regarding Spiritual abuse........if you want to that is.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=newliferestor&nav=start&prettyurl=%2Fnewliferestor
Pauline,
You must have missed one of my posts. I read that site and thought, maybe he is trying to help.
Then I looked at when his post there about spiritual abuse went online. It was the day he posted here,,,,,,after we posted all of our stuff. Look at the times.
I could not find anywhere else on his website anything about spiritual abuse.
I felt like it was a form of manipulation. Much like when I catch my son doing something and call him on it, then he says, "but ma, I was going to...." and it is often something that I wanted him to do...
I still would like to hear from him about all of our posts.
Jane
jjc9497
06-12-2005, 07:42 PM
I just want everyone that has been hurt to stop and put the blame where it belongs. God never intended for you to be abused. The enemy of our soul is the one that plans and schemes our whole life to beat us down and then destroy us. Please look for the church that truly is showing the love of Jesus the way it was meant to be. I am praying that God delivers you as He did my family and myself from all spiritual abuse. :)
Oh my, where to start...................
How do you know where the blame belongs? Who planned the cross?????
As said above--praytell where is the church that is truly showing the love of Jesus? We are all imperfect, therefore all churches will be imperfect and will never show the love of Jesus to all people at all times. My personal opionion is that EVERY church is abusive to someone at some time because churches are run by sinful and imperfect people. Knowing that doesn't make the pain less.
I'm really glad for you that God delivered you and your family from all spiritual abuse. That must make you better than Jesus because He died from the mistreatment of the religious people. That sounds like spiritual abuse to me.
pblondeau46
06-12-2005, 07:45 PM
Hi Jane
I guess the link I gave was the wrong one. This is what I found on his site regarding spiritual abuse.
Here it is:
I have a few sites that you can visit and get help in overcoming Spiritual abuse. I also put a little information on what Spiritual Abuse is. I hope that this is helpful. Try these two sites. www.spiritualabuse.com and www.spiritualabuse.org I have been to both sites and they have a lot of information.
Spiritual Abuse
by David Henke
Founding Date: Spiritual abuse is as old as false religion itself. While the practice is old, the term "spiritual abuse" may have been coined first by Jeff VanVonderen.
Organizational Structure: Can occur under virtually any organizational structure, but "top down" hierarchical structures are especially well suited to systemic spiritual abuse.
DEFINED
Spiritual abuse is the misuse of a position of power, leadership, or influence to further the selfish interests of someone other than the individual who needs help. Sometimes abuse arises out of a doctrinal position. At other times it occurs because of legitimate personal needs of a leader that are being met by illegitimate means. Spiritually abusive religious systems are sometimes described as legalistic, mind controlling, religiously addictive, and authoritarian.
COMMON CHARACTERISTICS
#1) Authoritarian
The most distinctive characteristic of a spiritually abusive religious system, or leader, is the over-emphasis on authority. Because a group claims to have been established by God Himself the leaders in this system claim the right to command their followers.
This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit. Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadship is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.
#2) Image Conscious
The abusive religious system is scrupulous to maintain an image of righteousness. The organization's history is often misrepresented in the effort to demonstrate the organization's special relationship to God. The mistaken judgements and character flaws of its leaders are denied or covered up in order to validate their authority. Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members. Their failure to live up to these standards is a constant reminder of the follower's inferiority to his leaders, and the necessity of submission to them. Abusive religion is, at heart, legalism.
Abusive religion is also paranoid. Because the truth about the abusive religious system would be quickly rejected if recognized, outsiders are shown only a positive image of the group. This is rationalized by assuming that the religion would not be understood by "worldly" people; therefore they have no right to know. This attitude leads to members being secretive about some doctrines and the inner policies and proceedures of the group. Leaders, especially, will keep secrets from their members. This secrecy is rooted in a basic distrust of others because the belief system is false and can not stand scrutiny.
#3) Suppresses Criticism
Because the religious system is not based on the truth it cannot allow questions, dissent, or open discussions about issues. The person who dissents becomes the problem rather than the issue he raised. The truth about any issue is settled and handed down from the top of the hierarchy. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.
#4) Perfectionistic
A most natural assumption is that a person does not get something for nothing. Apart from the express declarations of salvation by grace through faith God has given in the scriptures, it would be natural to think that one must earn salvation, or at least work to keep it. Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection. So long as he thinks he is succeeding in his observation of the rules, the follower typically exhibits pride, elitism, and arrogance. However, when reality and failure eventually set in, the result is the person experiences spiritual burnout, or even shipwreck of his faith. Those who fail in their efforts are labeled as apostates, weak, or some other such term so that they can be discarded by the system.
#5) Unbalanced
Abusive religions must distinguish themselves from all other religions so they can claim to be distinctive and therefore special to God. This is usually done by majoring on minor issues such as prophecy, carrying biblical law to extremes, or using strange methods of biblical interpretation. The imbalanced spiritual hobby-horse thus produced represents unique knowledge or practices which seem to validate the group's claim to special status with God.
BIBLICAL RESPONSE
Examples of spiritual abuse are found throughout the Bible. God describes (and condemns) the "shepherds of Israel" who feed themselves rather than the flock, who do not heal those who are hurting, or seek to bring back those who were driven away but rather discard them, ruling with force and cruelty (Ezekiel 34:1-10). Jesus reacted with anger against the thievery of the money changers in the Temple as they misused God's people for selfish reasons (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; Luke 19:45-47; John 2:13-16). He was angry at those more concerned with rules and regulations than with human suffering (Mark 3:1-5). In Matthew 23, Jesus describes the abusive spiritual leader in great detail. In John 9 the Pharisees "cast out" the man born blind simply because the truth he told about his healing exposed their own corruption. In Acts 7:51-56, Stephen called the Jewish leaders to account over their spiritual abuse. His testimony of Christ vindicated Jesus, whom they had abused, and condemned them. The legalistic Jews were so angry they stoned Stephen to death. In Galatia...[Message truncated]
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Pauline,
yes, that is what I read. Look at the date and time he posted it. It was after we were posting reactions to his post here.
I hope you don't misunderstand me. I am not attacking you in ANY way. I just don't trust his reason for posting that after. I can not find anything in his site posted before.
(((Pauline))) I am afraid that you may think I am fighting with you. I am not.
love you,
Jane
I'm really glad for you that God delivered you and your family from all spiritual abuse. That must make you better than Jesus because He died from the mistreatment of the religious people. That sounds like spiritual abuse to me.
WOW, now that is a perspective that I missed.
Thanks for your insight.
Jane
jjc9497
06-12-2005, 07:58 PM
DLL
The sad part is lately there is more than one of them. Everywhere I turn and they all have different solutions, beliefs and theories. And here's the funny thing, they have all heard these solutions from GOD> Maybe their GOD has multiple personality disorder.....
The Jesus I serve was the same yesterday, today and forever....
Jane
TOO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yahshea
06-12-2005, 10:48 PM
I was unaware that I would cause such trouble by posting here. I am truly sorry for hurting anyone in this forum. I do not pretend to have all the answers and solutions to your problems, I just wanted to be able to pray and support any that would want it. I will not post on here if you all are uncomfortable with my post. I have been blessed to have helped a few people over the past two months get through tough transitional times due to spiritual abuse and my family and I started this ministry to help anyone in any need. The site that anyone can go to is very new and I am still getting the hang of putting things together on the net. I don't Pastor a church and I don't make demands on anyone. I am just trying my best to love the way God loves me and that is all. Again, I am very sorry if I offended anyone here.
Kerrin
06-12-2005, 10:52 PM
:)
Apology accpted Mike,
I think you will find you will learn as much from us as you propose you can teach us.
So, if you are sincere hang around and get to know us.
DON"t make demands on any of us ,we've all been there and had horrific,(different ) experiences, so just put the breaks on eh???
;) Hope you will allow us to get reacqainted ;)
Love
Kerrin :)
Voyager
06-12-2005, 11:59 PM
We're like an A.A. group for spiritual abuse victims Mike. When new members come onto the forum wanting to fix everyone in the group or set them straight spiritually, it goes over here about the same as it would in an A.A. meeting. This forum is our recovery process, just like the A.A. group is the recovery process for alcoholics. Outside "ministers" coming in to "fix" supposed wrong attitudes or wrong beliefs are not very welcome.
It's obvious that you unintentionally struck a nerve here. It's not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last. Are the people here sensitive and defensive against outsiders coming onto the forum and trying to fix it? Yes, they are - and for good reason. This forum is our lifeline to recovery, and many of us are extremely protective of it.
It's not "bitterness", nor is it due to us being "backslidden". It's just due to the fact that we already have charted our course to recovery, and we're not looking for a different idea or direction as to how we should find it.
If you want to ditch the title, humble yourself, and become one of us - just another spiritual abuse victim on his/her way to recovery - you're more than welcome. Honestly, I think it's the whole "minister" thing that set off the biggest red flags. Most of us are here because of being "ministered" to, and we simply don't want any more of that. Been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt so to speak.
:cool:
molehills
06-13-2005, 06:16 AM
I was unaware that I would cause such trouble by posting here. I am truly sorry for hurting anyone in this forum. I do not pretend to have all the answers and solutions to your problems, I just wanted to be able to pray and support any that would want it. I will not post on here if you all are uncomfortable with my post. I have been blessed to have helped a few people over the past two months get through tough transitional times due to spiritual abuse and my family and I started this ministry to help anyone in any need. The site that anyone can go to is very new and I am still getting the hang of putting things together on the net. I don't Pastor a church and I don't make demands on anyone. I am just trying my best to love the way God loves me and that is all. Again, I am very sorry if I offended anyone here.
If you haven't been through abuse then why did you say you had? If you aren't a minister why did you say you were? If you are just here to support people who have been through something you haven't experienced than just sit by silent like Job's friends, that was the nicest thing they could do for him and if they'd stuck with it they'd have been a lot more help. People who seek out the suffering sometimes do so because the suffering are vulnerable and they are not seeking to help as much as seeking power. I'm more than willing to help a confused victim who hasn't gotten it yet, but I won't be patient with a power seeker who pretends to "ministerrrrr."
yahshea
06-13-2005, 08:41 AM
If you haven't been through abuse then why did you say you had? If you aren't a minister why did you say you were? If you are just here to support people who have been through something you haven't experienced than just sit by silent like Job's friends, that was the nicest thing they could do for him and if they'd stuck with it they'd have been a lot more help. People who seek out the suffering sometimes do so because the suffering are vulnerable and they are not seeking to help as much as seeking power. I'm more than willing to help a confused victim who hasn't gotten it yet, but I won't be patient with a power seeker who pretends to "ministerrrrr."
I was abused in a church for almost 17 years. I am a Minister of the Gospel of Christ and have been for over 20 years. I was called by God not a man. I seek only to help and that is it. I am amazed that you see me as a power seeker but that is your right. I pretend to be nothing other than what I am and if that offends you then I am sorry but I cn only be what God calls me. For all those that have a problem with the title, as you can see I droped it. I find it very disturbing that people that do not like to be attacked can do it without reguard to anyone elses feelings but maybe you were abused more than I was, I have no way of knowing. Again if you would prefer i did not post here at all then simply say so. I will not and would not knowingly hurt anyone.
Voyager
06-13-2005, 08:57 AM
I am a Minister of the Gospel of Christ and have been for over 20 years. I was called by God not a man. I seek only to help and that is it.
Herein lies the root of this whole controversy. No one here wants your help. We could care less who you are called by. We are all equal here.
If a "minister" came into an A.A. meeting, his title would mean nothing. If he told the group he was "called by God" and came there to help the group fight their disease, they would tell him that the program is already in place to fight their disease, and that they didn't need any outside help.
You have obviously taken offense that no one respects your title or your desire to fix us - and that is very common. It always happens this way whenever a "minister" bounces into the forum to save us from ourselves. They make a big splash landing announcing their title, their "calling", and everything that is wrong with the people on this forum. Then when the forum members voice their disapproval about the tone of his post, the "minister" goes into a rage, tucks his wounded tail between his legs, and leaves in a tantrum. I've seen this happen at lease six times here.
It's not that we don't want you to post here Mike. We welcome new members with open arms. You are the only one who can make the choice if you want to follow the forum guidelines or not.
Here are a few excerpts from the Forum Guidelines:
Empathize rather than advise.
Respond rather than react.
Talk about yourself and your own issues.
When you came into the forum advising us on what we should do, everyone reacted accordingly. You were talking about us, and not your own issues. It smacked as if you were cured, and you were here to cure the rest of us.
:cool:
I just came on and unfortunately have to leave to pick up my child from preschool.
Let me say this,
I am grateful that you came back here. I am grateful for your apology and accept it. You are welcome here. It is for all of us, we have different experiences and different paths that we are on. It is in these differences that I find wisdom, love and healing.
In your recent post you said that you were surprised that people who don't like to be hurt are willing to hurt.......
If you have read through my posts you would see that I really felt like it was a reaction of mine that was lifesaving. I really felt like your post was an attack- the words you used were hauntingly similar to others who have had the answers for my life. Anger is not an easy issue for those of us who were taught not to be angry.
I think it does say something about your character to come back, apologize and drop the title. \
As far as I am concerned, it is forgiven, over and we can start new.
I have also heard others use minister who aren't pastors.... I applaud your effort to reach out to the hurting.
Welcome, and I too apologize for the level of harshness of my words.
when you feel able, why don't you share your story>?
Jane
yahshea
06-13-2005, 09:03 AM
Herein lies the root of this whole controversy. No one here wants your help. We could care less who you are called by. We are all equal here.
If a "minister" came into an A.A. meeting, his title would mean nothing. If he told the group he was "called by God" and came there to help the group fight their disease, they would tell him that the program is already in place to fight their disease, and that they didn't need any outside help.
You have obviously taken offense that no one respects your title or your desire to fix us - and that is very common. It always happens this way whenever a "minister" bounces into the forum to save us from ourselves. They make a big spalsh landing, everyone on the forum gets upset by it, and the "minister" goes into a rage, tucks his wounded tail between his legs, and leaves in a tantrum. I've seen this happen at lease six times here.
It's not that we don't want you to post here Mike. We welcome new members with open arms. You are the only one who can make the choice if you want to follow the forum guidelines or not.
Here are a few excerpts from the Forum Guidelines:
When you came into the forum advising us on what we should do, everyone reacted accordingly. You were talking about us, and not your own issues. It smacked as if you were cured, and you were here to cure the rest of us.
:cool:
I have not taken offence at all. Matter of fact quite the oposite. Call me what you will. I simply explained I know who I am in Christ. I see that most of you will not accept me for who I am so I feel it is best for me to leave this forum alone. I had found it trying to find help for myself and others that have been abused and I see now that it can be more harmful than good. I am sorry for stiring up so much trouble. I pray that you are blessed in the name of Jesus. God bless you all.
ok, i really do need to leave.
I don't think voyager is telling you to leave, I think he is setting up boundaries.
Come as Mike, without the "way" for us to be healed. Talk about your healing, who you are and be a member of the group.
If you turn and leave, it is your choice.
To me it verifies that you came on with an agenda. Doesn't mean that is true, just telling you what the "body language" says to me.
I agree with what voyager is saying. We just want to have a place where others haven't told us how to get somewhere that they already are.
Do you want to join our group as a member or only as a savior? We already have a savior- those of us that choose- but we would love to hear from you as a member.
Jane
yahshea
06-13-2005, 09:10 AM
I just came on and unfortunately have to leave to pick up my child from preschool.
Let me say this,
I am grateful that you came back here. I am grateful for your apology and accept it. You are welcome here. It is for all of us, we have different experiences and different paths that we are on. It is in these differences that I find wisdom, love and healing.
In your recent post you said that you were surprised that people who don't like to be hurt are willing to hurt.......
If you have read through my posts you would see that I really felt like it was a reaction of mine that was lifesaving. I really felt like your post was an attack- the words you used were hauntingly similar to others who have had the answers for my life. Anger is not an easy issue for those of us who were taught not to be angry.
I think it does say something about your character to come back, apologize and drop the title. \
As far as I am concerned, it is forgiven, over and we can start new.
I have also heard others use minister who aren't pastors.... I applaud your effort to reach out to the hurting.
Welcome, and I too apologize for the level of harshness of my words.
when you feel able, why don't you share your story>?
Jane
Thank you for your kind words but I think that I will leave it alone for the time being. I was really caught off guard by the responses I had to the post and I feel I better leave adn study on how to deal with the anger issue better. Wanting to help and having all the tools to help are two different things. Again thank you for your kind words.
I also think that you need to know that when you say you are called by God to reach out to help us heal....that is what I am hearing, right?
That you need to be aware that some of us, me in particular, have heard people tell me to do things that I was uncomptfortable with because God told them.
You're hitting another nerve. I myself believe that God has called me to a ministry- for children. I call it Hannah's Haven. I don't think that I will ever tell the children that I am called by God to minister to them. It sets up a "us- vs- them" mindset. If I am called by God to minister to them- and love them- then I will simply LOVE them.
Do you get what I am trying to say?
I do have to go, but I would love to dialogue more with you.
Jane
Voyager
06-13-2005, 09:21 AM
I am certainly not telling anyone to leave, nor do I have the authority to do so. I am just offering my take on why everyone reacted the way they did, and what Mike could do differently to avoid that kind of reaction. That's why I posted some of the excerpts from the forum guidelines.
Many of us here used to have titles. I taught adult Sunday School to a church of 500 people for about five years. But that means nothing here. I am simply a spiritual abuse victim, just like the rest of the members of this wonderful forum. None of us have an agenda. We just all want to heal, and that is happening by comforting, supporting, and caring for one another - and by sharing our hurts and victories.
I hope you stick around Mike. If you decide not to, then take care.
:cool:
Katie
06-13-2005, 09:30 AM
Mike, I appreciate you coming back and apologizing. I know that when you feel attacked, it can be difficult to hear what people are saying. Voyager explained quite clearly why you triggered the responses that you did. I haven't felt in your responses that you understood what he said. Do you understand that this is a forum of peers? We are only experts as it pertains to our own experience.
I see that most of you will not accept me for who I am
What is it that you feel we are not accepting? I believe as a peer, that you have been welcomed to continue posting.
so I feel it is best for me to leave this forum alone.
This would be your own choice if you aren't interested in sharing your story, your experiences, and participating as a common member. Please don't place the blame on us if you make that choice.
I see now that it can be more harmful than good.
Most of us are experts at the blame/shame game. To be honest, what I hear underlying this message is, "you guys are bad and it's your fault I'm leaving."
Perhaps that is not your intention. Those who posted here have tried to explain themselves, accepted your apology, and welcomed you to continue posting. If you choose to leave, please recognize that as your own choice. If you choose to stay, you might get to know a great group of people here, always willing to lend a listening ear and a word of encouragement.
As far as ministry and calling, you don't know any of us. You don't know our stories, our backgrounds, who among us are also ministers and have callings. Wherever you go, a good lesson would be to not to presume to minister to someone without first caring enough to know them.
Voyager
06-13-2005, 10:00 AM
Great posts Katie and Jane.
Here's another good analogy of why everyone reacted the way they did. Let's say there was a forum for women who had been raped by policemen. A guy joins the forum with the name "Officer Bill" and tells all of the forum members that he has come to help them get over the abuse that they had suffered. Can you imagine the backlash that he would receive?
:cool:
yahshea
06-13-2005, 10:02 AM
Mike, I appreciate you coming back and apologizing. I know that when you feel attacked, it can be difficult to hear what people are saying. Voyager explained quite clearly why you triggered the responses that you did. I haven't felt in your responses that you understood what he said. Do you understand that this is a forum of peers? We are only experts as it pertains to our own experience.
What is it that you feel we are not accepting? I believe as a peer, that you have been welcomed to continue posting.
This would be your own choice if you aren't interested in sharing your story, your experiences, and participating as a common member. Please don't place the blame on us if you make that choice.
Most of us are experts at the blame/shame game. To be honest, what I hear underlying this message is, "you guys are bad and it's your fault I'm leaving."
Perhaps that is not your intention. Those who posted here have tried to explain themselves, accepted your apology, and welcomed you to continue posting. If you choose to leave, please recognize that as your own choice. If you choose to stay, you might get to know a great group of people here, always willing to lend a listening ear and a word of encouragement.
As far as ministry and calling, you don't know any of us. You don't know our stories, our backgrounds, who among us are also ministers and have callings. Wherever you go, a good lesson would be to not to presume to minister to someone without first caring enough to know them.
Not shaming or blaming anyone. I was not as equiped as I thought I was to help and deal with Spiritualy Abused people. It seems I have not recoverd as well as I had thought. I must resolve things within me before assuming to help anyone. It is no ones fault inthis forum that I have issues to overcome due to Spiritual Abuse but I can only say what is in my heart and when you do that and you get such harsh responses then you need to be able to handle the responses or stay out of the conversations. I was willing to listen but unable to admit to the pain and hurt in myself. Everyone did help me understand this about my self so some good did come from this. Thank you for your statements.
Voyager
06-13-2005, 10:12 AM
If you've been wounded by spiritual abuse, then you've come to the right place Mike. Maybe we can all make a deal - you don't try to fix us, and we won't try to fix you. How does that sound?
Just because things got off to a bad start doesn't mean you have to leave. Many of us came in here in the same manner. It took a while for me to understand how this forum works, and the level of respect for fellow members that it requires. Once I learned that, things started going much smoother (not that I'm "there" yet). Before that, I had my share of getting told-off by members of this forum. I even left a few times. I came back when I couldn't find what I needed anywhere else.
:cool:
I was not as equiped as I thought I was to help and deal with Spiritualy Abused people. It seems I have not recoverd as well as I had thought.
For me, recovery is a process and it is not linear. Sometimes I have healed in one area and then years later something happens that makes me learn that there are still some unresolved issues in that area. It is as if the wounds have scars, sometimes infection can set in around some areas and in other areas things are fine. We have to go back into those infected areas (which hurts pretty badly) to reopen wounds; clean them and hope (or pray) that they heal. Sometimes they do, sometimes there are more issues deeper down- requiring yet again; more healing.
I must resolve things within me before assuming to help anyone.
actually, in my life, God has used more broken peices than fixed ones. I was just telling someone the other day; my house is falling apart; my beliefs have fallen apart; my life is falling apart--- but I cried out, Lord, just use these last peices.
I can't speak for you, but for me there is only perfection when I reach glory. It is my imperfections that I can humbly help people.
Ironically--- you have helped alot of us a great deal with your initial post.
Some of us in the past would not have questionned it-- or spoke out-- or handled the reactions well of the other people in our forum who did not like our reactions to you.
We have been able to be angry at what you said and not hate you- been able to stand up and not run away but forgive.
So, for me, your imperfections have helped me a great deal. Thankyou. I too hope that you will stick around- but you'll have to accept us as we are and that means we may react to you. Others have reacted to me. It is painful-- but it is the process of learning how to interact with honest intimacy and humility; not in a false humility that I often saw expressed within my old church. If you choose to leave-- the door is open for your return.
Jane
molehills
06-13-2005, 11:36 AM
Not shaming or blaming anyone. I was not as equiped as I thought I was to help and deal with Spiritualy Abused people. It seems I have not recoverd as well as I had thought. I must resolve things within me before assuming to help anyone. It is no ones fault inthis forum that I have issues to overcome due to Spiritual Abuse but I can only say what is in my heart and when you do that and you get such harsh responses then you need to be able to handle the responses or stay out of the conversations. I was willing to listen but unable to admit to the pain and hurt in myself. Everyone did help me understand this about my self so some good did come from this. Thank you for your statements.
I think that's a key insight, Mike. When I first left I didn't realize that I was still strutting around like I was something. I hadn't realized that I'd picked up their legalism. I could quantify my value to that church, and I'd gotten the big head instead of realizing that I'd let go of grace and so I was just wandering around in filthy rags. It took me a while to get to where I didn't need some expertise or resume to feel safe and valued. Frankly, I'm still working on that one. Expertise, titles, resumes, that's what keeps you safe when you're in an abusive church. Here you are already safe, Mike. You don't need to flaunt your calling or possess the tools to help us in order for us to value you. Your attempts to make us revere you are going to keep backfiring, but if you'd just admit your need and accept the safety that's already here you'd be fine.
jjc9497
06-13-2005, 12:20 PM
Dear Mike,
I don't have time now to respond to your most recent posts as I'd like because I have to get back to work. I would sincerely like a chance to respond--with the goal of information and encouragement for you--not to attack. So I hope, if you come back and see this post, that you will return tomorrow or the next day.
Thank you
I have one more thing that keeps nagging at the back of my mind all day.
This thing about Mike leaving. Is it me, or is this another trigger?
It reminds me of the head game that people play, see things their way or they reject you. I am just not really clear on what I mean about this- it is just bothering me. I mean, he said things that we put boundaries up and are we supposed to beg him to stay?
I am throwing this out because I am not sure if I am picking up on something else dysfunctional or not-- I didn't say anything when I first read it because I really want the tension on the site to leave. I don't like seeing people upset. I wanted to just let it go. It has been nagging me all afternoon.
Honestly though, if he needs to go-- let him go. If he wants to stay, he is welcome- this is my opinion.
You know what, there were times when people said or did something offensive and after they apologized somehow I was the one doing more apologizing or asking them not to leave the church or a relationship. I think there is something to this in my opinion. anyway,
Jane
pblondeau46
06-13-2005, 01:30 PM
Pauline,
yes, that is what I read. Look at the date and time he posted it. It was after we were posting reactions to his post here.
I hope you don't misunderstand me. I am not attacking you in ANY way. I just don't trust his reason for posting that after. I can not find anything in his site posted before.
(((Pauline))) I am afraid that you may think I am fighting with you. I am not.
love you,
Jane
No...no..Jane........that is not what I think at all.
I didn't realize this was posted after............very observant of you. :)
Thanks for pointing that out.
(((((((((((((Jane))))))))))))))))))
Pauline,
I am not so sure if it is observant of me or just so much distrust of people in leadership that fuels me.
I went through so many years of blind obedience that now I think the worst and wait to be proven differently- not all the time- just when I feel a red flag pop up.
If we just experienced abuse in that one church, maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious. When we went to a second church, we saw worse (or more obvious) abuse there...we still gave the benefit of the doubt; hence, my cabinets are not finished and the pasturd has my money for the job not done. :(
Then, we visited other churches in town to see other families that left my original church be run out of them. Seems pastors in this town pray together every week and share sheep stories. So others aren't welcome when they ran from the abuse from my first church.
and then, I meet people lately that have horror stories. Sometimes they tell the stories as if everything is ok.... they are just talking about what "God is doing for them." My husband and I stand listening, horrified. Like a church in the town over who once a year does, "heave the tithe." For one month, or one week- I forget which-- they give the church 90% and keep only 10% to pay their bills. It's God's money after all and you can never out give God.
Any how, thanks for responding,
(((PAULINE)))
Jane
molehills
06-13-2005, 02:27 PM
My husband and I stand listening, horrified. Like a church in the town over who once a year does, "heave the tithe." For one month, or one week- I forget which-- they give the church 90% and keep only 10% to pay their bills. It's God's money after all and you can never out give God.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
pblondeau46
06-13-2005, 03:28 PM
Pauline,
I am not so sure if it is observant of me or just so much distrust of people in leadership that fuels me.
I went through so many years of blind obedience that now I think the worst and wait to be proven differently- not all the time- just when I feel a red flag pop up.
If we just experienced abuse in that one church, maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious. When we went to a second church, we saw worse (or more obvious) abuse there...we still gave the benefit of the doubt; hence, my cabinets are not finished and the pasturd has my money for the job not done. :(
Then, we visited other churches in town to see other families that left my original church be run out of them. Seems pastors in this town pray together every week and share sheep stories. So others aren't welcome when they ran from the abuse from my first church.
and then, I meet people lately that have horror stories. Sometimes they tell the stories as if everything is ok.... they are just talking about what "God is doing for them." My husband and I stand listening, horrified. Like a church in the town over who once a year does, "heave the tithe." For one month, or one week- I forget which-- they give the church 90% and keep only 10% to pay their bills. It's God's money after all and you can never out give God.
Any how, thanks for responding,
(((PAULINE)))
Jane
Jane, I can understand mistrust. I don't have much trust for anyone still affiliated with a church either. You know the ones I mean. The ones that play the games, talk the talk, ..............bore the hell out of me now. Sorry did I say that? :eek:
I Kept silent for so long that now I am very vocal lady!
The last church, we were at, I thought "this is it"! It was alive, vibrant, great people, lots of opportunity for ministry! I had been training for the ministry for a long time, you might say. Bible college, courses, running ministries in the church. Oh yeah, I had seen it from both sides. Not pretty .....not pretty at all.
This last time though.............I finally gave up on the dream. Lots of bad stuff happened. And I had to ask myself.........did I really ever have a dream from God, or was it my own. I was caught up in all the hoopla of ministry, recognition, acceptance...........Blah, blah, blah. After 27 years, it was still not happening. I was hitting my head against the wall for nothing! I finally dawned on me. After years of tears, bitterness, frustration, rejection......................I gave it up.
It was the best thing I ever did. I am free now to be me. I am learning who I am finally. I am learning to use what God gave me. I love to help hurting people......I can do that without any ministry of my own. I can reach out everyday in a normal fashion from what comes from my heart. Not practised or learned, but right from the heart.
All these years I was an unhappy Christian trying to act happy. Now I am happy. Now I understand that God can change my life if I let Him.
Sorry for ranting .................just from the heart. :D
I love to help hurting people......I can do that without any ministry of my own. I can reach out everyday in a normal fashion from what comes from my heart. Not practised or learned, but right from the heart.
ditto. I learned that people want to be listened too.... and treated like a friend and not a ministry :D
so now, we have lots of friends over for dinner....you know like how Jesus sat on the beach and fed them fish....and find that friendships are a whole lot more rewarding any way-- it recipricol and more meaningful. We minister one to another, and pray one for another....
Jane
pblondeau46
06-13-2005, 03:36 PM
ditto. I learned that people want to be listened too.... and treated like a friend and not a ministry :D
so now, we have lots of friends over for dinner....you know like how Jesus sat on the beach and fed them fish....and find that friendships are a whole lot more rewarding any way-- it recipricol and more meaningful. We minister one to another, and pray one for another....
Jane
I agree!!!! So much better! I spent so much time "ministering" that I had no time for making friends.........what a shame..............a dog gone shame.......... :(
funny you should say dog gone shame-- Jesus said something about giving our scraps to dogs.. :) or casting pearls to swine.
Sometimes I think that when I am helping someone, I really am only taking care of a need to make myself feel worthy. So inadvertently, I give my gifts in areas that they don't belong....(swine- not saying that the people are swine- just the dysfunctional thing that I do is like that proverb.)
Jane
Florence
06-13-2005, 03:54 PM
I am free now to be me. I am learning who I am finally. I am learning to use what God gave me. I love to help hurting people......I can do that without any ministry of my own. I can reach out everyday in a normal fashion from what comes from my heart. Not practised or learned, but right from the heart.
:D
I read somewhere recently that ministry is not what you do, it's who you are. You DO have a ministry of your own . . . ;)
Florence
Doug64
06-13-2005, 04:28 PM
Hi all:
I haven't been around much recently.
The thing I find most curious about this whole thread is, after coming on and telling us how to get on the straight and narrow, Mike hasn't been back.
A lot of good comments. Some more.... ahem! 'abrasive' than others, but surely they hit their mark.
Doug
molehills
06-13-2005, 04:32 PM
In case you don't read both forums, Mike posted his story on the NACR forum. I think it helps.
pblondeau46
06-13-2005, 04:35 PM
Sometimes I think that when I am helping someone, I really am only taking care of a need to make myself feel worthy. So inadvertently, I give my gifts in areas that they don't belong....(swine- not saying that the people are swine- just the dysfunctional thing that I do is like that proverb.)
Jane
Oh for sure.......I agree. Most of the ministry I did was to make me feel better. But that is what I was taught. Give and you shall receive...................... If you want friends you have to show yourself friendly............Oh yeah.......Uhhmmmmm....for sure........
But to be totally honest here...I did really care.....I often used to reach out to the underdog, because my heart went out to them. I think this is something that God had placed in me and because of my background. :)
That is why I have no aspirations to going into the ministry anymore. Motives can get all screwed up... :D
Doug-
welcome back, it's good to see you. So you know, Mike is posting in both forums...
he is in and out just like the rest of us. I don't think he has left us.
It's been a good process for alot of us.
Jane
Katie
06-14-2005, 07:24 AM
Mike, In spite of the fact that things got off to a rocky start, I would encourage you to continue posting here.
Religion often trains us into performance-based acceptance. We can get pretty molded into the pattern of thinking we have to do ministry and offer answers in order to be accepted.
This is a place to be yourself, to share your fears and weaknesses, and to begin to heal. I hope you feel free to return and share from your life and experiences.
Sincerely, Katie
I finally had the time to read all the responses to Mike's post. I truly am humbled to be a part of such a great group of guys/gals. The depth and maturity of each of your posts brings tears to my eyes. Yes, we all know the voice of the Shepherd and I believe each of you reflected that voice. I don't know you all as well as I would like to but you are all dear to my heart.
You are all very perceptive and have a great deal of experience to offer those who come here. One thing that is absolutely necessary for all of us to have if we are ever going to help anyone and that is a spirit of true humility and a servant. It is what gives us the sensitivity we have to address the hurts and needs of one another. What's that saying? "People do not care about what your know until they know HOW MUCH YOU CARE!"
Too bad I can only get here occasionally in the summer. But you know how it is. Got to go now, I have a 1pm Tee-time. FOOOOORE! :D
yahshea
06-14-2005, 10:47 AM
I am starting to understand the differences between the two rooms so forgive me if I did not explain myself very well. I wrote a little on what we went through at the church we just left on April 1st in the other forum. My wife and I are finding our own voices again after being told for almost 17 years that we did not have an opinion. I understand now why some reacted the way they did at least I am starting to and that is a good thing. I respect honesty and no one can be faulted for being honest. I look forward to getting to know you all and I feel that I will get the healing I need here. I am a work in progress and thats all I claim to be. When someone says something that triggers a negative response both my wife and myself can get very defensive. I guess I did not truly understand that reaction until I came here. Knowledge is a wonderful thing but at times a big pill to swallow. I am learning and I feel better about myself knowing there are others that can help cause they know how I feel. My first reaction was to run but something keeps me coming back here. Must be for me to be here then. Thanks again for every post even the angry ones for they all helped me in one way or another. :)
Voyager
06-14-2005, 12:17 PM
You rock Mike!
;)
jjc9497
06-14-2005, 09:05 PM
I am starting to understand the differences between the two rooms so forgive me if I did not explain myself very well. I wrote a little on what we went through at the church we just left on April 1st in the other forum. My wife and I are finding our own voices again after being told for almost 17 years that we did not have an opinion. I understand now why some reacted the way they did at least I am starting to and that is a good thing. I respect honesty and no one can be faulted for being honest. I look forward to getting to know you all and I feel that I will get the healing I need here. I am a work in progress and thats all I claim to be. When someone says something that triggers a negative response both my wife and myself can get very defensive. I guess I did not truly understand that reaction until I came here. Knowledge is a wonderful thing but at times a big pill to swallow. I am learning and I feel better about myself knowing there are others that can help cause they know how I feel. My first reaction was to run but something keeps me coming back here. Must be for me to be here then. Thanks again for every post even the angry ones for they all helped me in one way or another. :)
Thanks for your humble spirit. I look forward to getting to know you better.
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