Is being ill being disobedient?

[Kerrin]

:confused: :(

I didn't know whether to say rollercoaster, cycle, bumpy ride or all of the above! :eek:

When I get the sympton's I currently have ,with Crohn's I get really scared.
If I'm not really careful ,worst case scenario is I go into hospital and they start pumpimg me full of I.V hydrocortisone (and Morphine........which isn't so bad :o ), but since my diagnosis 5 years ago , my body has become dependant on the cortisone in an unhealthy way, in that my adrenal glands have stopped producing cortisone and I have to take a small oral dose every day............the long term goal is to "re-train" my adrenals to start producing cortisone again!!

Each hospitalisation has seen coming off the cortisone even harder than before ,so much so ,that my Specialist has said "no more unless life or death!"

I get so fatigued and the pain is constant etc.... but my fear has triggered an old tape .
The Church used to tell me my "illness" was because I was rebellious, "needed deliverence", or "wasn't doing something in line with God's will" ,therefore I was being punished I guess ,because that's the only way He could get my attention...........at least that's what I was told. :confused: :(

I found myself at the Supermarket stocking up on things like soup ,easy meals .....anything that would prevent me from having to seek help ,especially if Hospital looked like an option.

Why this post? :rolleyes: :o
Have I done something out of God's will? ( I'm thinking my job which lasted 4 weeks!) Did I get too cocky ? Did I make it Idolatorous?
Am I not allowed to be happy about my life ?
Is it not ok to enjoy having some money?
I don't know......... :confused:

I discovered that my former Vicar (pastor), has pretty much told people in my community that I spent most of my time with the Church :"being looked after as opposed to 'looking'after other's" :(
( Besides all the other horrible stuff he has said about me).

( I Know this rumour to be true, because when I called the Principal of the School where I used to teach R.E ,he quoted the Vicar as having said/implied this :eek: :confused: I wanted a reference from him.)

I was deeply hurt ,and told him so because I had started a free breakfast programme at that School which started with 10 kids and grew to nearly the whole School within a few months, it was financed by the Church , but I ran it etc..
And I taught two R.E classes as well ,( while being investigated ,and ,finally diagnosed.So I wasn't exactly in great healthy shape BUT I still did the work!)
I used to help out every Friday night with the Youth group.
I taught Youth Alpha.
I was in pain ,and tired but I was told it was my "thorn in the side, my cross to bear".......
I was told to give up my Nursing job because I had made it an "idol"..........but NOT give up any of the other stuff which didn't pay the bills..........that was supposed to manifest by the fruits of my faith!! :(

I don't re-call receiving much help over the years, except when I was first diagnosed and no-one knew what was wrong with me , a lady from the Church took me to the A&E where I stayed for 10 days!
Amy was looked after by a Church Family whose daughter I spoke of in the other post.

*Sigh*........
With no-one face to face to talk to I get so confused. :confused: :(

I said to Amy I'll just go do something low paying and meniel and maybe I won't get punished, (not exactly those words), and she said"Why would you do that ? You are a nurse?" :o

Why am I so afraid??? :confused: :(
I need help.
Love
Kerrin ;)

P.S Since I was "kicked" out of the Church the Religious Education has fallen over and the Breakfast Ministry no longer exists??
Fruit of the Spirit? :(

[pblondeau46]

Kerrin......you are not being punished and have done nothing wrong! How could God teach you anything through this when you are so totally confused about it!

The reason you are sick is because of all the stress you have been under......caused by the "VICAR HIMSELF AND ALL HIS CRONIES!!!!!"The guilt is hurting you. You will heal when you soul heals. Isn't that what 1 John teaches?

Life happens! The air we breathe is imperfect. There are so many factors to getting "sick". Forget about why, concentrate on what. What can you do now?

[Hesed]

I have a family member and a friend with Crohn's disease and it can be horrible. I'm REALLY trying to restrain myself from wishing that your vicar would get it and then see how well he could function!!!

I almost posted the following on a different thread before I read your post and now I know why I didn't. The worldview in the ancient world - and obviously still a powerful view today - was that people who were ill or poor or disabled were only ill or poor or disabled because they had sinned and God was punishing them. People thought "no sin = no illness", "sin = illness" therefore if you are ill, your sin has been proven.

I believe that one of the powerful messages of Jesus' teaching and actions (and also of the resurrection!) was that God does not will illness or death on individual people and illness is not a punishment for sin. Jesus proved eternal life by rising from the dead and so proved that God was "pro life". Jesus proved that God's intention is to heal by being God incarnate, the healer. When the disciples asked Jesus whether the man born blind had sinned in the womb or whether he was being punished for his parents' sin, Jesus told that there was no connection between the man's blindness and anyone having sinnned.

[molehills]

OK, worst case scenario--my favorite kind :( :p --let's say God has sent you this set back in your disease, shoot, let's say he sent you the disease. Hallelujah! The disease is there to help you practice leaning on his love and the love of others who are being trained to care for others, or something else equally wonderful. Even the horrors that happen in our lives serve His good purpose somehow and are meant to do us good or are used for our good even though others meant them for evil.

Joseph said to his brothers you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. God never does anything to us but good.

[ex-shep]

I must say I do a slow burn when I hear such teachings. Trying to undo all the faulty programming is a herculean task. I have yet to be healed of my asthma, codependency, sex and love addiction and the dysfunctional junk passed down from generation to generation. I take comfort in the offhand comment of the Apostle Paul when he complains out the thorn in his side. Response, My grace is more than sufficient. Strength made perfect in weakness.

It has taken years of practice, I usually step back and wonder what the Lord is going to do with a situation-- particularly the situation at work. The other I have learned in recovery is when I am sick it is a temporary physiological setback that has nothing to do with my self worth. It is OK to take care of the body God has given me. If I need to ask for help, there are professionals who can provide and there are certainly the posters on the board.

Hope the perspective helps.

[Voyager]

I am 100% confident that good and bad things happen to both good and bad people at random. The recent tsunamis confirmed that death, disease, sorrow, grief, happiness, wealth, poverty, good health, bad health, success, and failure have no consistent pattern to who they strike. They are not respecters of race, creed, behavior, personality-type, or religion. It simply rains on the just and the unjust alike.

I believe that all we can do is try to stay safe and use exercise, good eating habits, and medicine when needed to try to stay healthy. We can hope that God will protect us, but we also have to use our common sense to protect ourselves if at all possible.

:cool:

[Jerry]

I said to Amy I'll just go do something low paying and meniel and maybe I won't get punished, (not exactly those words), and she said"Why would you do that ? You are a nurse?" :o


Dear Kerrin,,,,
This post has me "Hoppin Mad",,,,,This little girl Amy,,,,,has wisdom infinitally beyond that of your stupid ignorant "Vicar"I know this is a Christian site,so I warn all that from here foreward there will be "Triggers",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Kerrin,,,,Your Vicar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is an ASS-HOLE !!!!!! A man that would learn from you information in confidance and publish it to the church???????,,,,,if he was in my church here in the states,,,,,,,,,,I would take him behind the church and give him a real good explaination of how things are!!!!!,,,,,,,and that isn't said in jest,,,,,I have actually done that to a minester that was physically abusing his wife!!!!,,,,,I am not proud of that,,,,,,but it did happen.....Do I regret it??????,,,,,yes!,,,,,,,am I sorry?????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO WAY!!!!!,,,,at final judgement I will look God stright in the eye and say,,,,,,,,,,,Yup Father,,,,,,,i did that!!!! and take whatever lumps I should get ......... Kerrin,,,,,you are a talented,,,,resourceful,,,,wonderful woman,,,,,and if I have to piss you off to lift you up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,SO BE IT!!!!!!!
Love Jerry

[Voyager]

Kerrin,,,,Your Vicar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is an ASS-HOLE !!!!!!
I love the way Jerry cuts right to the heart of an issue - such wisdom!

:D

[jane]

Kerrin-

(((hugs)))


I don't know much these days- all my beliefs are up for question. What I do know is that I agree with this;

I am 100% confident that good and bad things happen to both good and bad people at random.


In college we had to read a book, I think Rabbi Kirshner wrote it, "when bad things happen to good people."

I don't remember if I agree with it's insides, but the title has been a cheerleading line in my mind all through the last few years of turmoil.


Love,
Jane

[Kerrin]

Dear Kerrin,,,,
This post has me "Hoppin Mad",,,,,Kerrin,,,,Your Vicar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is an ASS-HOLE !!!!!!
if he was in my church here in the states,,,,,,,,,,I would take him behind the church and give him a real good explaination of how things are!!!!!,,,,,,,
Kerrin,,,,,you are a talented,,,,resourceful,,,,wonderful woman,,,,,and if I have to piss you off to lift you up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,SO BE IT!!!!!!!
Love Jerry

:D
Once again Jerry you make me Smile, and guess what? I'm feeling better this morning........still taking it slow; BUT YOU were ALL right, everyone of you. so ,thank you my Forum family I 'felt' your prayers, really ;)

I let Amy read this post ,and once again ,little "miss wisdom" says ,"you tried to do too much to fast mum!!" (new job, gym 3 times a week ,clean house ,plan holidays, run here and there............take work too seriously and bring it home ,etc..) :(

Jerry ,ya gonna have to stop complimenting her ,she's beginning to think she knows better than me!!! :D :rolleyes:

Ok, we have a holiday week- end now, I' m resting, watching DVD"s with her, and next week I'm going for the Job thing again!!
Maybe this time I'll find the right place , right pay, not too many hours, and one where I can get my breaks when I need them, (that seems to be important in staying in remission with this thing "diet",and being very strict about it!)

Keep praying for me if that's not being selfish 'cos I believe in them.
Love
Kerrin ;)

(Jerry, if I send the Vicar over there (apparently he lived he Minnesota for a while when he was a Geologist!!!, so, he likes to think he is an expert on all things American), WILL you teach him that little lesson you learned???? :D :p )

[Satscout]

Last time I checked, you are a nurse, right?

Would you ever DARE to try to tell one of your patients that Crohn's is punishment for disobedience?

Then why let "them" try to convince you of it?

Don't get me wrong - there are diseases that are linked to or exacerbated by lifestyle choices (like long term smokers developing COPD and cancer, or heavy alcoholics developing cirrhosis). I don't think Crohn's falls into this category - and you are obviously not deliberately choosing to continue exacerbating behaviors.

I'm with Jerry - "hopping mad", so to speak, at those who would try to twist your mind around about this truly MEDICAL condition.

(((((((Kerrin)))))))

[Kerrin]

No, Sharon, I wouldn't dare call any of my patients anything actually; my role is to treat ,educate, support, empathise, and do the best I can to make them comfortable.........
I learned a lONG time ago never to judge my patients, before I even became a Christian, and then I was criticised ,( by the Church for "looking " after Murderers, rapists ,drunk drivers, aborting mothers etc....even someone with COPD.)

Funny how ,only now as I type this I see the irony in that, and what you said :rolleyes:
Who am I to judge???

((((((Sharon)))))), as always, a blessing to read your posts.

Thanks again Jerry, Amy's getting a swelled head though!! :D

Love
Kerrin ;)

[Hesed]

I learned a lONG time ago never to judge my patients, before I even became a Christian, and then I was criticised ,( by the Church for "looking " after Murderers, rapists ,drunk drivers, aborting mothers etc....even someone with COPD.)

Does anyone remember the song "Jesus was a Capricorn" by Kris Kristofferson in the early 1970s?

The first verse and chorus went something like this (this is from memory!)

"Jesus was a Capricorn
he ate organic food.
He believed in love and peace
and never wore no shoes.
Long hair, beard and sandals
and a funky bunch of friends.
Reckon they'd just nail him up
if he come down again.

'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
who they can feel better than any time they please.
Someone doing something dirty he's supposed to frown on.
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me."

[jane]

Kerrin,

I missed something somewhere, looked through all the threads, DID YOU LOOSE YOUR NEW JOB??? :confused:


Jane

[Voyager]

'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
who they can feel better than any time they please.
Someone doing something dirty he's supposed to frown on.
That's one of the reasons that I quit organized religion altogether. I got tired of people talking about how much better they were than the "heathens" who were "on their way to hell". To me, religion is just a way for people to feel better about themselves by being able to feel like they are holier than someone else. All the preachers talk about how they are supposedly helping the poor and the widows - but I have never really seen much of that. What I have seen is people getting "saved" and then talking down about everyone who isn't "saved". That kind of religion is useless to me.

:cool:

[Kerrin]

Kerrin,

I missed something somewhere, looked through all the threads, DID YOU LOOSE YOUR NEW JOB??? :confused:


Jane

Yes Jane,
I didn't agree with some of their practices Professsionally or morally and was unable to resolve them with my manager.
It was very frustrating.

What was on the surface wasn't what was underneath or what was really going on there.
They can pay me $ to live a lie , but it just ain't in me....... :(

I took 2 days off sick ,('cos I was), and they hand delivered a letter terminating my employment!)
I'm still looking into what I can do about that ,or whether it's even worth it.
I think it is ,as some of the guys here said ,"they felt threatened by me" :(

So, hence ,applying for the new job, interview next Thursday ,Here's hoping :) .

LOve
Kerrin ;)

[jane]

Gotcha!

Sometimes I don't read those other areas because there isn't enough time. Especially now that it is gardening season, I am in the garden or with my children or fixing up this house... :eek:


I applied to some of those positions....will be waiting for an answer soon.

Is it legal to terminate you if you are sick in your country?


Anyway, my thoughts are with you. In our state we are short nurses- Connecticut isn't like Texas though - but you'd be hired in an instant. :D

Jane

[Kerrin]

:D Thanks Jane,
No it's not legal to terminate while you're sick...........so we'll see about that one.

I locked horns with her a week earlier over certain issues and said i was going to resign on principle, professional grounds etc.... and she spent an hour begging me to stay so; seeing as the week end was coming up I thought i'll think about it. :rolleyes:

Anyway ,went back to work on the Monday ,and another "incident " had occurred and a staff member had been assaulted by a relative.
Police were invovled, and I just started to do what was appropriate to protect the Staff and the patient (of said relative ,'cos apparently it's not the first time!).

She just "took" over and said NO! She didn't want to "lose the bed" ( the patient being transfered to another facility, is what she meant). That wasn't going to happen, it was THE relative ????
:confused:

The poor nurse who had been assaulted had no support ,counselling ,de-briefing , and while another nurse just "left" the premises as she was afraid for her safety, no support was offered for her either!!! :confused:

I don't work like that!
Patient safety and Staff Safety come first in my book.
Not cover ups and lies.........( There's other stuff they were doing too....)

SOooooo, long story short.........she saw me as a threat I guess; Because to me, these kinds of issues are black and white!! :rolleyes:


I have worked in Texas; back in 1985 and i didn't have a problem getting a job then. ( They seem to like us Aussie nurses :p )
And ,yes we have a nurse shotage here as well , it's world wide at the moment!

So, Although nothing to do with my spiritual abuse, I guess it is in a way because I was told I had made my job, and the money an "idol", now ,It's just a hard "tape" to lose........
I've lost my confidence to do what I do with the "right" motives.......... :o
( I know that makes no sense!) :eek:

Praying for yours!!! :)
Love
Kerrin ;)

[jane]

no, it does make sense.

I think that spiritual abuse impacts all corners of our lives. I have been surprised at how personal the spiritual abuse has been.


Thanks for sharing.

Jane

[jjc9497]

Although not a nurse, I spent many years working in hospitals. I used to get so MAD at the church people who would come into a room and tell someone dying of cancer that if they just had enough faith they would be healed. Sounds like you are being fed similar garbage. This is so stupid because we ALL eventually die (even the vicar--so if all illness is due to disobedience, he will eventually have to admit to some disobedience himself). The nurses used to comment to me (because they knew I was a Christian) that they could always tell the patients who really believed in God because they could face death with confidence instead of fear. These godly Christians were wonderful witnesses to the hospital staff, and their stupid "church friends" would come in and chastise them for not having enough faith!!!! I know people who have been truly healed miraculously, and even most Christians don't really believe them. I've heard people share about being healed and seen others roll their eyes in disbelief, and yet these same people will tell you to "have more faith" and be healed, or "confess your sin" and your sickness will go away. I don't understand the mind of God, but Matthew 5:45 very clearly says that God sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. So I don't see how anyone can tell you that your illness is because you have been disobedient. If every illness is due to disobedience, then this verse is not true and Jesus lied. Guess your vicar needs to read his Bible.

[pblondeau46]

Although not a nurse, I spent many years working in hospitals. I used to get so MAD at the church people who would come into a room and tell someone dying of cancer that if they just had enough faith they would be healed. Sounds like you are being fed similar garbage. This is so stupid because we ALL eventually die (even the vicar--so if all illness is due to disobedience, he will eventually have to admit to some disobedience himself). The nurses used to comment to me (because they knew I was a Christian) that they could always tell the patients who really believed in God because they could face death with confidence instead of fear. These godly Christians were wonderful witnesses to the hospital staff, and their stupid "church friends" would come in and chastise them for not having enough faith!!!! I know people who have been truly healed miraculously, and even most Christians don't really believe them. I've heard people share about being healed and seen others roll their eyes in disbelief, and yet these same people will tell you to "have more faith" and be healed, or "confess your sin" and your sickness will go away. I don't understand the mind of God, but Matthew 5:45 very clearly says that God sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. So I don't see how anyone can tell you that your illness is because you have been disobedient. If every illness is due to disobedience, then this verse is not true and Jesus lied. Guess your vicar needs to read his Bible.

Well said jjc.....Welcome to the forum!

[jane]

yes jjc,

I was one of those people who heard those lines. I am still hurting from one of them. We had a few years of a lot of trauma in our lives. One of those things was a second miscarriage. I was told by the doctors that it was over.....and yet there was still a heart beat. They could see the baby tearing off of my uterus wall.

I was in bed crying when one of the intercessors called with a message from their recent prayer group.

yup, something about not having enough faith. They heard from God himself in fact that if I had enough faith this little heartbeat would survive.
So when it didn't and I had to bring the little baby in for an autopsy--- I felt totally insane. I cried out to Jesus, "you said you would never leave or forsake me" and then I felt incredible peace that I could never explain to anyone. Insanity left me.

but the wounds of those words spoken to me in those hours still remain. . . .


welcome to our group. I hope you find healing and love here as I have.

Jane

[pblondeau46]

Quote: "yup, something about not having enough faith. They heard from God himself in fact that if I had enough faith this little heartbeat would survive."

Jane, how sad...........how totally ignorant on their part.

I belonged to a the Word of Faith movement for a long time. This is where this ignorant teaching comes from. I have seen it over and over again.

I have to say though, I have never believed or said that to anyone. Instead I would be sad and frustrated. All I really ever wanted was to help others. I hated to see others hurting. I was deceived and was held captive to the teachings I had received. I believed the essence of what was taught, but did not agree with the way it was delivered. I do not believe in these teachings anymore. I have completely abandoned them. I have a lot of books and tapes to destroy.

Unfortunely, so many opportunities, to minister to others, were lost because of this attitude.

You have my sympathies regarding your miscarriage. I wish they could have been there for you. These people are truly blinded and following a false teaching.

God help us..........this teaching is infilterating the church. We need to stand up for the truth and point out error when we see it.

Jane, I'm sorry for the hurt they caused you.

[jjc9497]

Jane,

I am so sorry you had to endure losing your baby, and then have such wounding statements added on top. We Christians are certainly good at shooting our wounded. (((((((((((((((Jane)))))))))))))))))))

[Kerrin]

(((((((((For all of Us)))))))),

It just plain HURTS!! And they keep doing it ,and have the audacity to say "i don't have enough faith", I" idolise " my job, my money ,my daughter ,my appearance"........blah, blah ,blah........

Good advice :,IF only they WOULD read their Biblles .
But Then They'd know the Truth!
They'd be wrong and ,whoops ,there goes all the power......... :rolleyes: :eek:

( I was punished over my unborn baby too Jane ,in a different way...*sigh*)
*tear drop* .

Love
Kerrin