want to share this with you,

[jane]

I met someone on line who asked me to write my story for him so he could put it on his web page. He is concerned about what he is seeing in the church today.

Any way, I haven't had time to read his entire web site-- planning a birthday party for my kids this Sunday and running Caleb to more evaluations.

Can you guys take a look-- I am curious as to what you think. My first impression is that it is wordy and a lot to read and jeez, I 'll have more time to read it next week.

I am sure that if you are interested, he would love your stories as well. It looks like he is trying to alert the christian community to the things wrong in the churches--- a lot of what we have been through. He is a christian, considers himself a discerner. . . .

well, you go see for yourself and tell me what you think. His web page is; www.jamesfive19.com

Love,
Jane

[Jerry]

Dear Jane,,,
I went to the site,,,,,and your right it is very wordy.I dunno ;) ,,,,this guy is probably ok.I am just very careful of a "Man With a Mission" until I am sure of who he is.
Love Jerry

[Florence]

I looked over a bit of the site and find it interesting that this guy is very legalistic. I get a definite sense of "my way or the highway" from his writing. I'll bet if I emailed him and expressed disagreement with some of what he has on his site, I would get a response indicating that I am the problem for pointing out the problem.
Florence

[butterfly]

HI JANE, I LOOKED OVER THE WEB SITE AND I AGREE WITH JERRY AND FLORENCE. ALSO TOO MANY BIBLE VERSES. butterfly

[butterfly]

Hi , I Forgot To Say In My Last Post. That I Would Not Want To Give Him My Story.

[livingondreams87]

Do you disagree with Mel Gibson's moving, The Passion? I personally have never seen it...but this guy seems to be VERY against it. This is what bothers me....is saying "Avoid it completely!" instead of, "I didn't agree with all of it, but glean from it." AUGH! Yes, I pick up a spirit of legalism too.

[Jerry]

Do you disagree with Mel Gibson's moving, The Passion? I personally have never seen it...but this guy seems to be VERY against it. This is what bothers me....is saying "Avoid it completely!" instead of, "I didn't agree with all of it, but glean from it." AUGH! Yes, I pick up a spirit of legalism too.
Dear livingondreams,,,
I saw the "Passion" and I personally thank God that Mel Gibson made that movie.It is "high time" that Christians got the full impact of what Christ endured on our behalf.....Did I "Like" the movie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not at all ,no christian "Likes" that movie,but it is a movie that every Christian should see ;)
Love Jerry

[jane]

I just read that part about the Passion too. My husband and I never saw it but that was the first time I ever read an opinion like that. Most are happy that someone was willing to get the story out in mainstream, good quality, media.

I started to read one girls testimony of being abused. It was about visiting the church for the first time and not able to take communion because that church is "closed communion" or something.

I understand that everyone has a right to their own pain, and I would have been embarrassed too if in front of the entire congregation I was singled out as not allowed to take communion. . .

it just didn't measure up to the levels of abuse that I read about here.

Not that I am trying to measure everyone's abuse. . .you know what I mean?

I still want to read more.

He may be legalistic, but he is attacking the church's way of doing things. I am hoping that he is sounding legalistic because of his overall purpose. . .

I think he is using so much scripture because he is writing for the benefit of the leadership and clergy of the churches. He wants to get their attention and show them the corruption within their churches, using their own point of reference; the bible. He really is angry at the abuses that he sees in churches. Not many are writing out against it. . . . His paper is written much like the research papers we wrote in college, we had to write an agruing statement and then support it with fact. I am also uncertain what is native language is in, he appears to be fluent in at least 3.

Here we are healing, this forum serves a different purpose. We of course want everyone to have the right to an opinion, and we don't want to hear legalism. I totally agree.

I just want to keep reading and see what it is exactly that he is doing. It takes gusto to start going against the structures that have been organized for so long that hurt so many people in Jesus' s name. I am not planning on following his cause, I just want to see where it is leading.

I haven't told him how to find "us"- this forum. I want to leave it for us to be able to write and have some peace without feeling like someone is looking in to gather information from us. That is not to say that he might not find it. He has been looking for people who are abused to get their stories out there.


thanks for your input, everyone. It helps tremendously.

Love,
Jane

[Voyager]

Good points Jane. A good analogy would be if someone wanted to expose abuses in the Muslim religion. If they wanted to get the attention of Muslims, they would probably reach a bigger audience if they walked and talked like a Muslim. On the other hand, if they wanted to reach out to abused Muslims, it would be wise to tone down anything that resembled Muslim legalism.

:cool:

[Hesed]

A quick comment on "levels of abuse" - and I absolutely did hear the comment about not judging each other here and I want to say "thank you" for that.

I definitely believe that my childhood church was abusive, but there was nothing as dramatic as most of the stuff that I've heard here. They quietly gnawed away at people's confidence and made you feel like you were worse than a piece of doggy-do. Or, at least that's what happened to the majority of the people. A handful of men who probably thought they were God's gift to humanity anyway, were quite prideful about how repentant they were and how they'd confessed their sins.

However, one young man my age did take his own life and I had enough information to know that a lot of it was due to depression and low (no?) self esteem taught to him by the church. Also, there were a large number of depressed people in the congregation. It may not seem dramatic, but there are many different ways of abusing people. Parents can beat their kids or they might not lay a hand on them but raise them from the begining to feel unloved and unwanted; churches and do the same with people. There is nothing worse than feeling you're crazy when you KNOW lots of things aren't quite right but no-one else sees it.

I believe that singling someone out from the pulpit is a technique of shaming and humiliating - even if "well intentioned" (e.g. to keep the purity of the fellowship, or whatever). It's a way of making me feel big and right by making you feel small and wrong. That was what I read into the "communion" story - someone struggling to communicate the humiliation. Otherwise, I agree that the website felt wrong and as dangerous as the stuff that it was trying to "fight".

Sorry for such a long post!

[Kerrin]

Dear livingondreams,,,
I saw the "Passion" and I personally thank God that Mel Gibson made that movie.It is "high time" that Christians got the full impact of what Christ endured on our behalf.....Did I "Like" the movie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not at all ,no christian "Likes" that movie,but it is a movie that every Christian should see ;)
Love Jerry

YES!!! Every Christian should see that movie about the Passion! Every other movie I've seen about Christ I can't relate to the MAN as He is portrayed as "un real/supernatural", with people falling at His feet! :confused:

I sat crying through the movie!!
Horrified at the violence and apologising as I sobbed to Jesus for,(us), doing that TO him!
Then thanked Him that He loved me enough to do that!!!
(This Christ I CAN realate To)
It is graphic!
It is horrifying! But it is the Truth!
If you read a little more as to how Mel Gibson came to make that movie I think you might understand a little better about why and how he chose to make it in this way, including the cast he chose ,the Photography etc and interviews!
It WAS not something he slapped together!
( Actually it's very interesting to read about each Character and how they played their role, particularly the role of Jesus! )


I recall reading something where he said he was sitting looking out a (very high story) window and wanted to jump!
This is Mel Gibson, family man ,rich ,blah ,blah, has it all........
He said something like; as he pondered this he felt the Holy Spirit speaking to him about revealing the truth about the Passion.

Take a closer look guys at the big picture!
I don't want to get into arguments over this because I admire him for having the courage to Challenge people to look at the reality of Christ's suffering and the price He paid for us!

People will pay money to go see much more graphic violence than this !!
And NOT complain!!
They don't like it because the Roman's WERE cruel! It DID happen .Its in the History books!!!

LOVE,
Kerrin ;)

( If i sound extreme about Mel ,well he's an Aussie and ,while he has fame and fortune he lives very humbly in an obscure NSW town and walks down the street like everyone else in his town!
And because he is "real" , the people of that town are fiercly protective of his privacy and the media leave him alone! :rolleyes:
I wonder why?)


Sorry ,I'm off my soap box now!!

[jane]

Kerrin,

I don't think anyone here had a problem with the movie. It is the man who has the website that does.

Did I confuse you ?

We love Mel in our home. My teenager still watches the Patriot over and over again. My husband still watches Gone Fishing over and over again. . .

Didn't know he was from australia though.

Jane