Contagious Abuse

[merry-go round horse]

Hello...I'm new at this. In fact I am new to the idea of spiritual abuse though I think it's happened for about 20 years now. Recently, my husband was asked to "step aside" for a worship pastor. He was a small groups, admin. pastor. A year later the church still doesn't have a worship pastor..but they hired a pastor already on staff to replace my husband AND do his own job. Wait...thought we phased out that job? The pastor had made this decision alone last year after aa month of prayer. In the mean time the church has kind of just erased us though we still live thress blocks away. This year pastor made this new staff change after "feeling very good about it" along with a board...and the pastor hired had aproached him for the job. Just weeks ago s. pastor asked my husband to come into his office. Had to tell him the truth, turns out he didn't want to work with him (last pastor wanted to do a complete staff change too. response to a survey) and he suggested that with a pattern of previous ministry failures..."maybe not supposed to be in ministry" I don't know. So confusing.

When we started 20 years ago my husband (then fiance) was let go because the s. pastor's daughter didn't care for him. However, the pastor told the church he was leaving to go make more money (surprise :eek: ) The next place, we were let go because we weren't patient enough with a fellow employee who didn't get his work done. The organization also paid us monthes late. Years after we left, this employee went on to be a youth pastor, became a pedophile and then killed himself when discovered. Just before this ministry we were laid off. The church ran off two pastors and then finally half the congregation left..no money for more than one pastor. It's difficult for me to see God in churches...I'm trying to re-connect with a new fellowship as we're stuck in town untill our son finishes highschool. My husband is in school to become a christian counselor...he'll be awesome..but in the meantime things feel so rocky. So this is spiritual abuse huh? That explains why all the christian friends I had here dropped me like a hot potato...guess it spreads when they feel loyalty to a leader.

MGRH :confused:

[Katie]

I'm sorry merry, I know how awful it feels.

Don't let what "they" say and do change what you believe about yourself.

The things you know in your heart about who you and your husband are, are true, no matter if half the town says differently.

You are right, blindness is very contagious, and sheep are dumb.

[Willow]

HOLY CRAP! I'm confused just reading about it... let alone experiencing the rejection and heartache you and your husband have received. The tendency is to question yourself and your value. DON'T!!!!! Please... Don't do that! I have found the christian environment to be the harshest and cruelest of all. I moved into a job at a *GASP* Secular-humanistic university and get treated like gold there! Honestly... I feel awful for ever labeling them as such. There are as many christians working with me there as at any other job I've ever held. How cruel we can be to others. How wrong it is :( I have to say that my answer was to leave ministry. I still feel drawn to it in some ways... but have to make myself remember the past and keep it an arms length away. I'm more "salty" than I ever was as a ministry member. Truly... my compassion is up and my exposure to the world of hurting people is greater than ever. What more can you ask? I think the clergy is a crock imposed on us by the roman empire in constantine's day. I know that's deep... but if you study history, clergy is not bible concept. You and hubby can minister so much more without the labels on you. Anyway... just my opinion and way of coping. You will find your path and it will be God sent :)

HUGSSSS and healing to you both.

Amy

[Jerry]

Dear Merry,,,
Yes they are always so kind ,considerate,and compassionate,,,,,while they are giving you the axe.,,,,,"Yes,,,we feel that God is calling the church in a different direction,,,we are called to have "Russian" hands and "Roman" fingers and "Virgin" ears",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Merry,sweetie you and your husband are better off without that "Gutter Slime" and their devient social behavior :D
Love Jerry,,,,,and welcome to the board,,,,,welcome to the "Light" ;)

[jane]

Welcome Merry,

I am sorry for your pain. I can't help but wonder yet again what Jesus is going to say about things done in His Name....


Hope you find what you are looking here.

Jane

[Voyager]

That explains why all the christian friends I had here dropped me like a hot potato...guess it spreads when they feel loyalty to a leader.
The only solution that I have found for this type of dilemma is to give up religion altogether. Otherwise you will continue on this same merry-go-round for the rest of your life. Who needs "friends" who base their loyalty to you on your religious performance (or lack thereof)? Those are not friends. Friends are friends forever. True friends don't base their loyalty on whether or not you obey a spiritual boss-man.

I got off the religious rollercoaster about four years ago - and I have never regretted it. I have much more peace and confidence about my worth as a person than I ever did while involved in performance-based religion. Who needs it?

If you can find a church where no one is the "boss" and everyone is tolerant of different beliefs, then I guess that would be safe. However, I have not been able to find one. To be honest, I gave up looking for one four years ago, and I am perfectly content without a church. It took a while to break the religious addiction, but it was worth it.

:cool:

[merry-go round horse]

Gee...thanks all of ya. Won't it be nice to get to heaven and find all the strangers who gave me and you a cool drink of water in Jesus name...when the "church" can't give even give us the time of day. Frankly I think this is a little bit of small town attitude here. I call it "little town syndrome "...not to be confused with little man syndrome (no sexism intended here) or "little dog syndrome". This pastor actually said they needed someone more dynamic...churches aren't looking for pastors to be caregiveres for the down and out. Oh brother. Anyway...thanks for the drink. And yes...I'm getting off the ride, just like in that Mary Poppins movie :)

Keep being salt and light everyone.

[bad girl]

This ties in a bit with the thread I posted, answer to prayer, but I realized yesterday that our pastor who left a year ago was experiencing some things similar to me. He had a heart for ministry and a passion for people and he was getting ridden really hard about his shortcomings, mostly administrative.

I saw this man waxing the floor once at 11:00 at night at the church. He signed up to help and no one else did, so he ended up waxing the church! This pastor stopped what he was doing and came out of his office to greet me every time I came to the office to work. He worked probably about 60 hours a week and preached the best most in depth sermons I've ever heard, yet they were still on his case. Imagine if God was frustrated that Daniel wasn't getting the paperwork done.

One day I realized that most of the disciples and prophets would not have been allowed to speak in this church. They wouldn't have qualified.

Hosea had a marriage problem
Paul had a murder record
Peter was uneducated
Ezekiel was telling outlandish stories about wheels
Peter cast out demons

God Bless, Pat

[Kerrin]

Hi MGRH! :)

And DITTO again everyone! ;)

No wonder you feel like a horse going 'round and "round.....and "round!!
Like Amy ,I had trouble keeping up!
You poor things :(
But That's what abusive Churches do best, create mass confusion :eek:

Welcome to the "club"
I have found more Of God, and more friends here in cyber land, since I gave up Organized religion.

I started back at a new church, a couple of weeks ago, just to test the waters. I'll go again. Never again to be used, abused, and spat out again for not "performing"!!! :cool:

Our youth leader from our old church is now Youth Leader at the "new" church ,and he ,and his wife have begun the brave process of exposing our "old" Vicar/Pastor.........through all the right channels.
When I spoke last night to him ,he said until I had e-mailed him about my experience and used the term "Spiritual Abuse" ,He had been struggling for a 'definition' of what they do!!!


He Now understands ,to some degree, what Spiritual Abuse is and wants to learn more so it doesn't happen again!! :)

My hope for you ,is that by hanging out here for a while you'll come to understand how despicable these "pasturds" (Jerry's, and Voyager's term!!!), really are. :o

They said it ,really :o

It will be great to get to heaven and finally meet you all!! :D

( I don't know about the "small town " thing, Melbourne is a city of over 5,000,000
and abuse in Church is endemic and growing.........scary stuff!!)

[merry-go round horse]

Hey Kerrin,

[Jerry]

Dear MGRH,,,,
Just to qualify the term "Pasturd" for you...This term is reserved for the most agreegious Pastoral offenders...From reading your post,your husband could never even hope to qualify as a Pasturd ;)
Love Jerry

[Kerrin]

Dear MGRH,,,,
Just to qualify the term "Pasturd" for you...This term is reserved for the most agreegious Pastoral offenders...From reading your post,your husband could never even hope to qualify as a Pasturd ;)
Love Jerry

Sorry Jerry if I took your term out of context! :o :o
I should have read more closely , just got confused on all the "merry go round" :o
Love,
Kerrin ;)

[joemama]

hi merry go round-do you go to my church? Just kidding--everything sounds SO familiar.I especially like the idea of unanimous board meetings--why does NO ONE disagree? Here's why, when my husband disagrees he gets pulled aside and told that it wasn't an appropriate time to discuss the issue. Sure, he's a deacon, and a board member,but the board meeting is NOT the time or place to discuss what should be done in the church.After a while,even if you've tried to be tactful and polite in the way you present things,you learn that there are some things no matter how large or small that you DO NOT discuss. You DO not disagree with decisions about 1)how to spend money 2) the building program 3) anything that has any consequence whatsoever.Oh and by the way-- when our midweek service rolled around and the piano player didn't show up and bring the drum machine guess who played the drums? Guess who was on tempo and who kept trying to over power him and slow the music down?That's right--the same people who always blamed him. Am I just overprotective?

[Doug64]

Hi Joemama:

I don't think you are over-protective.

It got to the place on my job (I'm now retired) that I just didn't express my opinion because it would be shot down 99 times out of 100. I just did my job and left the politics to others.

With church, you didn't say anything contrary to the popular belief - which wasn't a problem because I was never in a role important enough that my opinion was sought anyway.

When we decided to leave, we just left. No reason given. Maybe that's a coward's way out, but we had no desire to get into a wrangle with anyone. Those who asked why we left were told why. Interesting though, that none of the leaders ever asked.

Doug

[joemama]

i am a total screw up.I can not get past this because so many other things are involved.I think of all the years of blind following on my part and a whole host of new questions comes up--would my sister have been married to the abusive first husband if it hadn't been for the church?Would she have been able to leave sooner if they told her that he had been unfaithful to her with someone in the church instead of counseling her on what Jesus says about divorce? Would I have left if had allowee myself to acknowledge that these people can be wrong and that they aren't more spiritual than me?Have I bullied conciously or unconciously others into accepting this warped view of God?Have other people in the past been as angry as I am now over similar situations?Why have I given control of my life over to a group of people who wouldn't hang around me if they were given the chance?But then I second guess myself and say--well, you don't pick your family do you?You wouldn't necessesarily hang around everyone in your family if it was all based on commonality of experiences and likes and dislikes.God put you there because that's where he wants you there. Obey them that have the rule over you...,and slaves,submit yourselves to your master.Why can't all of this be as easy to get out of as it was to get in to?Have I put my children in the impossible place I'm in and will they hate me down the road? To whom much is given much is required....I would that you be hot or cold but because you are luke warm I will spew you out of my mouth...it is stupid that I obsess about all of this--I should be thankful that I have breath and 3 healthy children, right?I am losing it

[molehills]

i am a total screw up.I can not get past this because so many other things are involved.I think of all the years of blind following on my part and a whole host of new questions comes up--would my sister have been married to the abusive first husband if it hadn't been for the church?Would she have been able to leave sooner if they told her that he had been unfaithful to her with someone in the church instead of counseling her on what Jesus says about divorce? Would I have left if had allowee myself to acknowledge that these people can be wrong and that they aren't more spiritual than me?Have I bullied conciously or unconciously others into accepting this warped view of God?Have other people in the past been as angry as I am now over similar situations?Why have I given control of my life over to a group of people who wouldn't hang around me if they were given the chance?But then I second guess myself and say--well, you don't pick your family do you?You wouldn't necessesarily hang around everyone in your family if it was all based on commonality of experiences and likes and dislikes.God put you there because that's where he wants you there. Obey them that have the rule over you...,and slaves,submit yourselves to your master.Why can't all of this be as easy to get out of as it was to get in to?Have I put my children in the impossible place I'm in and will they hate me down the road? To whom much is given much is required....I would that you be hot or cold but because you are luke warm I will spew you out of my mouth...it is stupid that I obsess about all of this--I should be thankful that I have breath and 3 healthy children, right?I am losing it



My grandmother used to say the "All things work together for good" is a soft pillow for a weary heart. All those bad things that have happened will be made to serve good purposes. Being here is really helping me see how far I've come. I used to feel all those things that you are feeling right now. It was like thinking you were working for truth justice and the American Way and then finding out really you were working for the Nazis. In my situation it was like all of the sudden it was just there glaring at me, but now that I've discovered church can be evil it's hard to discern who's good and who's bad. I get caught up in those concerns too, but I think that will pass as you heal up over the bad experience you've gone through. I hope so anyway.

[Doug64]

Hi:

My wife and i followed blindly for about 40 years. There is room for a lot of coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff, but it's an exercise in futility because we really don't know what would have happened under different circumstances.

Maybe our kids would be attending church if we had been somewhere else. Maybe not. We also have three of them.

As someone told me several years back - "you did the best you could with what you knew" which I think is pretty good advice. Cut yourself some slack.

I'm glad we now see things differently, and I think more clearly and correctly.

Doug

[merry-go round horse]

Hey Joe momma :) I don't think you are the only one questioning your every movement. I like you have spent many ...MANY hours asking unanswerable questions. All I can tell you is that no one person can be that guilty of so much without really knowing the offense. I have finally come to the conclusion that people...and whole groups of them ..can be wrong. Some are closer to the middle and buy into the "culture" unquestionably. Other church goers are so on the fringe they are oblivious to anything good or bad going on. All in all , it is a culture. Cultures accept and embrace certain things. Our church embraces "DYNAMIC" leadership over honest and humility. They have had a dynamic leader for over 14 years. I wish you could get to the point where you can walk away and say..I'm not playing this game anymore. You would be surprised at how so few people will follow. The ones that do have the same concerns as you. Do you remember the story of t"The Emporer's New Clothes"? The little boy was honest about what was really there wasn't he. Be assured that the best you can do for your family and loved ones is just to love them with the love of Christ (not a dysfunctional doormat love thought) Isn't God big enough to heal them as He will heal you. My sister had a grain of wisdom. Mybe the church didn't out grow their need for your type of input....maybe you outgrew their small ideas HMMM

Be assured...Jesus sees it all and weighs the motives. Ask Him to specifically show you anything that need confession. Satan deals in generalities...God is specific about our sins and needs for confesssion.

Hope You can heal soon, MGRH

PS....Yeah...I think we do go to the same church...it is a kind of "churchianty" mindset that is destroying the true message of the gospel. Very tragic!!!!!!!!!!